Ricky Grove 00:35
Hey everybody this is And Now For Something Completely Machinima. My name is Ricky Grove, we're looking at Tracy Harwood and Damian Valentine joining us. Today we're going to be talking a little bit about machinima news and technology news that's related to machinima. I'm happy to be here to discuss it with you. Tracy, what do you have for us?

Tracy Harwood 01:07
Oh, wow. Well, I've got a bunch of stuff to talk about. I've got I've got some new tools. I want to just sort of touch on the Disney things that we've been talking about. Awesome. Some AI stuff and a copyright item again. Excellent. So shall I carry straight on? Do you want me to carry through the hoops go right into it. Cool. All right. Well, I saw a bunch of really interesting tool releases. And I think Damon's gonna talk about one of these as well, that I that I thought might be interesting to machinima creators. Firstly, I picked up that iClone and has released a clumsy moves pack. Well, I look forward to seeing you.

Ricky Grove 01:53
Such a smart thing to do? Absolutely.

Tracy Harwood 01:56
Absolutely. I can't, I can't wait to see what Phil makes of it. Actually. I love that kind of sort of humour, really.

Damien Valentine 02:05
But maybe I should use it to make an Heir to the Empire blooper reel? Oh,

Tracy Harwood 02:11
what a great idea. Yeah, well, that to me was a was an that looked amazing. So I'll share the link to that. It's 70 bucks. And I guess the more you get into these movement packs, the more it all sort of starts to add up. But I thought that it

Ricky Grove 02:26
does pile up. But you know, they're the it's high quality. That's one thing. I spent a lot of time talking to the people that run the company, and they're very much invested in quality. They don't release stuff. That's junk. So when you buy something, it's really going to work. Brilliant.

Tracy Harwood 02:45
Yeah. Well, there you go that so that's one and then I saw that you remember a few weeks back, we talked about some big fight scenes where we were commenting on the quality of the crowd animation. Well, I've seen a couple of crowd simulation tool sets. And I think these are quite, quite interesting, actually. I think, I think, Damian, you're gonna talk about one of these. So why don't you go ahead and talk about the iClone one, then I'll tell you about the other one. Okay.

Damien Valentine 03:21
So it seems to be tradition that the day after we record Reallusion announce, something for iClone. This is what happened. I'm kind of curious what's gonna happen tomorrow, we're gonna get some Yes. So anyway, iClone has had for a while this crowd simulation technology built into it. And it's been pretty good. But they've released a massive update to it, which completely overhauls the crowd simulation. So you can, instead of just having characters that will move around in certain areas, just gives you a lot more control. But what kind of what are they actually doing in the areas you've done? So I've not had a chance to try it out yet. But I'm excited because if you want to do a big battle, maybe you can have some battle animations have loads of characters just fighting with each other to animate each one. That'd be really good. Sure, sure. There's also the way that you can choose which characters are generated for your crowds as well, you got a lot more control over that. So obviously, if you're making a fantasy or historic film, you don't want people walking around in jeans and T shirts, because that would look very wrong. So this crowd tool gives you those kind of options and looks very impressive. And I'm kind of looking forward to using this myself in some of the proceedings because it's going to make it a lot easier to have lots of characters and it's also designed so that if you've got lots of characters on the screen, you think that's kind of really nice. Slow down your system, they've done something to help make that a little bit easier. And I don't fully understand how that works. But, you know, this is necessary because we're using our home computers for this stuff. And so if you want to make a film with lots of characters walk around the backgrounds, but it slows to a crawl, and you can't actually complete anything. That's not really helpful. So why have they done it? This is gonna be great. Yeah, I really give it a try. So I can talk about it more in depth.

Ricky Grove 05:32
and report back to us once you have a little bit more sense of what it actually does. They'd love to hear love to hear info on that. Yeah.

Damien Valentine 05:41
And it's a free update as well. So you don't have to pay Excellent. So you don't have to go and buy an extra plugin, because a lot of the iClone stuff you do have to pay for the plugin, but this is free with iClone. But yeah, that's always a good thing. So yeah, we'll have to come back maybe next month and give a proper review on what exactly it can do. Because they did it. There's a video you can watch, really demonstrate how it all works. And it looks very impressive. And so if you're listening to this, go and check out that video, because it'll give you an idea of what this can do. Yeah,

Tracy Harwood 06:12
great. I'll put a link to that on our show notes. The other one that I saw, I don't know if you saw this one as well. The guy called Kenneth McLean is working on something for Unreal Engine five called MegaHumans as a plugin. I don't think it's ready yet. But nonetheless, he's kind of put a little work in progress video out there where he's sort of using it to to test and generate crowds as well. So I'm guessing it's something along a similar line to the iClone eight as I understand it, tool set that you're talking about. And then the other thing that I saw this this month it'd be fair to say we I don't think we've seen a lot of VR based machinima I know we sort of said in, in our original description of the show that we will sort of smatter it with a bit of VR, but we haven't seen a lot of VR machinima, I can actually only think of a couple by Jae Solena actually, that we've we've reviewed. However, what I did see this this month was a release of a free new mod by Praydog for Unreal Engine, which actually might change that. And this is a mod that will enable a vast number of games as I understand it, over 11,000 games to be played in VR. And by association, I'm extending that to include making machinima within those game environments, as well. So share a link on that. And we'll look forward to seeing more VR machinima in due course. The mod itself is it's it's only available on GitHub. So I'll put a link to the GitHub link as well. So you can see if you can have a go with it with any of the little games that you've got that are based on Unreal. The other thing go on. Sorry.

Ricky Grove 08:07
Can I do a quick little news item that Yeah, so we can break it up a little bit. I just wanted to announce that in mid January, not too long ago, Screen Actors Guild announced that they had come up with an agreement with Replica Studios, which is an AI voice technology company. It allows SAG AFTRA members, mostly voice performers to work with Replica to create digital replicas of their voices. Oh, wow. No. I'm they had talked about this sag when they came up with their AI agreement with the studios. So it was interesting, this must have been in the works and they just delayed the announcement. Now, I'm really glad that they're jumping in on this because voice replicas can be something that can be abused pretty easily. But not all the SAG members are really happy about the deal. There's lots of concern about whether it's a smart thing to do and also what exactly, what sort of renumeration are they going to get and how is it going to be monitored? You know, to give you an example, a voice actor is hired by a company through Replica to use their voice. Now, rather than hire them to come in and do the full performance for a game, which might take two or three days. They hire them to do an hour or two a voicing in order to get a sense of what their voice is like added to their database, and their AI creates the performances for the game. So they're concerned about well then how does the actor know if their voice is going to be used in another product, but it's been changed, the tone or the pitch or whatever has been changed to do something else, how's that going to be monitored? So there was a lot of confusion and a little bit of upset about that. However, I think overall, it's a good approach because the actors are going to be renumerated. SAG AFTRA said they're going to be responsive if actors find out violations of the contract. So I think in general, it's a good thing, but it's still a little bit touching, touching go on that. And I think that technology is ripe for abuse, Replica and and, you know, actors, images, or actors. I remember God it was way way back in the year early 90s. When computers were just starting out I had this thought Well, shit if I was somebody like Marlon Brando, or some famous actor that time you know, why doesn't accompany just call me into their place. I worked for a week, they photograph every conceivable facial expression, all of the movements for anything, including Action, Romance, whatever, it's in my voice, and then they just use that to make performances from and then they pay me for those performances. Heaven knows I was fantasising, but it here now we're looking at that very possibility today. Yeah. So it's a strange frontier. It

Tracy Harwood 11:37
is, but you know what? Well, it's the only way you can scale you as individuals, as actors. So you are really now being turned into proper commodities, much more so than you were as people. Oh, that's

Ricky Grove 11:51
great. That's great. Yeah.

Tracy Harwood 11:53
Which, yeah, well, there's different ways of looking at that, I think. But it's the only way you're going to be scaled, or your you as an asset are going to be scaled.

Damien Valentine 12:04
The Indiana Jones film that was released last summer, Dial of Destiny, it has a 15 to 20 minute sequence set. During the Second World War with the young Harrison Ford, I say young how he wasn't in the original Indiana Jones films. Because they've got Lucasfilm, we've got so much archive footage of him as Indiana Jones and has Han Solo in Star Wars, that they were able to digitally create a younger face. So he was there performing the scenes and then changed his face digitally raising rates, archived footage, and then did something to his voice as well to make him sound younger. And it's sort of sounds kind of similar to that. But obviously, he gave permission to do that, because he wants to be in this new Indiana Jones film. And that's the only way to do it. Because he can't be his younger self anymore. I've seen lots of the ageing, technology used, and it usually looks very fake. So as you put makeup on the characters to make them longer, any sort of digital de ageing, it doesn't look right. But somehow, because they didn't use twice archive footage, rather than just a straight image of his face, it worked. And there was a couple of places where he could tell that it wasn't quite right. But for the most part, you'd think this is something they filmed raised years ago, and just storage to use now. But this is, again, it's something could be abused quite easily. Like you were saying, Ricky that. You know, when he's gone, they could, in theory, tackle uncut footage. And this.

Ricky Grove 13:52
Technology has always been interesting and innovation comes out. And then you've got two sides, you've got the side that's going to use it for creative and positive reasons, even for profit. And then you've got the other side of crooks and sleaze bags are just going to take that and turn it into something that they can steal more from people. I mean, you got to tell somebody, you get a telephone call from somebody that you know, and they say, Hey, I'm in trouble, send me money. And you send money and you realise it was a AI voice fake, you know, all kinds of strange technology. So there's an answer to a two bladed two sided equation. But I think in some of the most part, this is an interesting way to do it. It'll be it'll be interesting to see how the future developed.

Damien Valentine 14:44
I think we kind of, I think, because over here and over there. It's both election years. We're going to see a lot of AI fake stuff being used by both sides to get sure for sure. I think that's going to help Yeah, sort of figure out what's going to be done about this from a legal perspective, because obviously, yeah, that's gonna be massively abused. And that's how it's counter is to. It's

Ricky Grove 15:10
funny how, once a congressman is caught up and sleazy deal in a screwed over suddenly it becomes an important congressional issue. Not not when it every day people get screwed over. It's only when it hits them. Yeah. Anyway, I just thought I'd share that news with the for because I thought it was interesting. Fascinating.

Tracy Harwood 15:33
It is fascinating and an unfolding picture, as you say. So we've talked a lot about that on over previous episodes as well. It's a complete moving feast, I think on how AI is changing what what we do and what the implications of Yeah, mathematic. I actually got some AI issues as well. But I just wanted to sort of well, in fact, I think, you know, I picked up on the back of the release of Steamboat Willie, Mickey Mouse IP by Disney. This, this last couple of weeks. You must have seen this, these these teasers for this upcoming horror movie. Oh, yeah. Which looks

Ricky Grove 16:19
trailers. Great. Trailers. Great. What is the title of it? Again? I can't remember. Oh, I

Tracy Harwood 16:24
don't know.

Damien Valentine 16:26
I can't read the names of them either. But two of them were revealed the day that it came out of copyright made and the other one's going to be made.

Ricky Grove 16:34
First. Yeah,

Tracy Harwood 16:36
well, did you also see though, the horror game, not not a film, this is again, and I do know the name of this because I did have a better look at this one. This was called Infestation. And originally it was called, I think, Infestation 88 or 89 or something. And now they've changed it to infestation origins. And that's a game that's going to be released later this year. And it's also a horror game. Just fascinating. And so you know, I was expecting because that this all unfolded from the first of January, I was thinking, right, let's, let's keep a little bit of a rolling thing going on our on our information board, see what we see. You know, if anybody creates anything kind of interesting over the coming coming weeks that we can kind of talk about and I've not seen a single thing that's worth talking about, except just this morning, I saw this really interesting AI generated short that seems to confirm Mickey's transmogrification into a horror character. And it's a total bit of fun, but it's really worth having a look at. So I'll put on the the shownotes. So you can kind of have a look at that as well. So AI generated short, brilliant, by the,

Ricky Grove 17:48
by the way, the Princeton Law Review puts out every year in January, something called the public domain review, in which they list all of the things that have come into public domain, including all the films all of the music, novels and things like that. It's a fascinating read. I'll give Tracy a link so you can put it in the show notes.

Tracy Harwood 18:13
Great. That's really great. Yeah. Then the other thing that I saw related to AI I don't know if you saw this as well. Pryda Parx who is quite a well known Second Life creator has released this really helpful video in which he shows us how to enhance machinima with Stable Diffusion and comfy fight. Comfy, Comfy UI I think it's called basically kind of free tools. She's showing us these two different methods that she's can kind of kind of combining in this workflow that she's got, which also uses Blender, one of the techniques she's using is what you call into interpolating, which is where new frames are inserted between existing frames in order to to increase the frame rate up to say 4K. So she's inserting new frames and the other one is where for each of the frames, what she's doing is enhancing the resolution of of the image image itself and then putting it back into the workflow. So that process results in a scaled up higher frame rate animation, which is I don't know if that's the way Phil did it. If it was here today, I was gonna ask him how he did it for the old machinimas and Machineplex Vimeo channel, I'm guessing it's something very similar. Maybe not because, you know, these tools are out there changing kind of really rapidly. But I certainly share the video with you so that you can see how she's done it and what the result is. It's noticeably different. That's great. So you know, anything that you kind of pull out of the game that's really low frame rates, you can do something about that. Really good. with AI, which is brilliant. And then on matters related to AI, I was also very interested to note that Valve Steam Store has finally made a decision about the use of AI generated content and the games that it lists, which I don't know if you recall, these were held back for months, because they've got some kind of AI generated content within them. So on the 10th of January, it announced that after spending time considering what was going on in the world of AI talking to also to game developers, and exploring how it can handle games have got aI content in them, it's decided that it's going to accept them, primarily, most of them, as I understand it, there is actually a process to go through. So you will have to as a game dev, you will have to declare how AI is being used, whether it's saying the generation of the of the assets in the game, or in the real time gain processes says NPC type characters or whatever the generative processes in the game. Which, um, you know, I'm sure this isn't kind of a novel thing, to be honest. But alongside it, and I think this is kind of getting to what you were talking about there. Ricky, is also a complaint mechanism, because it's not just about, you know, people saying, yeah, it's got it in No, it's not got it in it's also emergent issues to do with the use of AI that they're trying to keep tabs on. So they've also got this complaint mechanism in place, whereby players can kind of report any of the inappropriate uses that they identified. Well, I saw I've been following this, having a look at it. And obviously, as one would expect, there are a heap of people, naysaying it on the community forum. But I think most of these guys, I haven't really thought about this too much, because, you know, AI has been used in games for years to animate and interact with NPCs. So it's not a new thing at all. Not not in the way that we've understood it. So to me, this was kind of an obvious way to deal with the with the fallout from AI is stealing my copyright mantra, which we've seen such a lot of in in recent months with artists and it's a different thing, I think, in the game space. I also saw on this a few comments. along the lines of surely this is going to lead to a plethora of subpar games being released? Well, I think you could argue that but it was certainly the argument made by Well, that's my game. My my guess it. Do you remember when the triple A's when platforms like Steam were released? They were up in arms? Because, you know, they were they were basically not happy about potential competition. And sure enough, you know, 1000s of indie games have been released, and it has massively fragmented the market. But, you know, there's, I think, fundamentally, there's been a major shift in the games industry as a consequence of all these games being launched. Now there's is yes, hundreds of 1000s of creatives and games, developers involved, I'm not sure actually how many of them make it financially viable as studios. But there's certainly a lot more of them about now than there were 15 years ago. And the sector as a whole has a critical mass and is recognised as one of the most important creative industries in the world now. So I'm guessing and I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with this new toolset, these new AI generative tool sets that are being integrated into the development of games making and games playing processes. I think this is going to be the next step in I agree.

Ricky Grove 23:56
That sounds good. That's a very good point. And the AI has been a part of games for a long time, I think the focus will be on what content is being used by AI what what data is being used by AI in games and different games. And I think the complaint, part of it is a great way to go about it. It because if you're somebody who has content, you've created content, you haven't and suddenly you see it in a game and you don't know anything about it, you should be able to bring it up and take care of it that way. Again, I don't know how many times I've said this, the legal system is woefully behind, trying to give us guidance on this. Eventually there's going to come some judgments and then appeals and then there's going to be a final judgement and it's going to be laid out. So for now, it's gonna be wild west. People you're gonna break into camps, people who say hey there any AI is stealing from me, or stealing from my friends or, we should have none of that or databases should be this way. I think Adobe is an interesting example of somebody who's trying to address the database issue fairly successfully by, by by limiting the kinds of things that that are actually part of the AI, visual database, you know, although they're not 100% successful, they're way up in the 90s in terms of their success rate, as far as getting non copyrighted material that they're drawing data from to use AI. So again, it's going to be really, I think we're gonna be reporting on this issue all year. Yeah,

Tracy Harwood 25:40
I think you're right. Well, I've got one more bit of AI related news, and then another Oh, my god, yeah, well on this, which is, yeah, I have a new tool being teased by Google. And this one's called a Video Poet. And it turns, prompts, text prompts into animations without the interim stage and an image of an image and a separate tool, like Runway to animate it. So it's kind of conflating the process if you like, fascinating, indeed. And there's a really neat example of its capabilities focusing on this kind of a travelling raccoon, which I'll share a link to so have a look at that, because I think that's going to be another very interesting tool.

Ricky Grove 26:26
Cool. Damian, do you have some news for us?

Damien Valentine 26:30
kind of covered the crowd thing? Something I read actually this morning, it was it was on the PC Gamer website. And there was, yes, PC Gamer and they were talking about as the survey goes around to game developers, and every year, they ask, which platforms are developers most interested in developing for? And PC games are currently at 62%. So they've got no more focus than any of the actual video game consoles. So I think the next one down was PlayStation five, which is 30 something percent interest. And it just goes down from there. And PC games has been interested in developing PC games as increased a lot since 2020. And a lot of it is Tracy was just talking about all these independent games this, because independent game studios, it's a lot easier to develop PC games than it is for consoles, because you can just Yes, you can make it and you can put it up on Steam or anything other companies, you don't have to worry about any of the other processes through it. But if you want to release on Xbox or Playstation, you have to submit it to be approved. And it has to go through this rigmarole have been tested and make sure it's all this other stuff that goes through. It's a very complicated process. And every time you want to release an update, you have to update itself has to go through all of that as well, which is why an example a few days ago, Starfield had a major update. And it's just a beta update. And they're going to release the full thing in a couple of weeks. But it's only available on PC, because it's so much easier to push it out to the PC. Yeah, yeah. And I thought was great because machinima is done on PC, so I'm gonna put more focus into developing PC games, plus more potential machinima platforms that people can use to create films with. Yeah.

Tracy Harwood 28:45
I look forward to seeing more indie game content. Me

Ricky Grove 28:48
too. Me too. I've got some you know me. I'm an Elden Ring fanatic. I've got some Elden Ring news for you. The convergence mod which is one of the most successful mods for Elden Ring and for any game. It's just got a fanatic following they just released an update 1.4 which was a significant update, it added new game, it expanded new gameplay areas to the vanilla game, our original vanilla game. It added a bunch of new NPCs and new weapons and new play styles. It tweaked and adjusted things based on people's feedback and everything. And the if you're interested in playing the game, the convergence mod YouTube channel has a guide for each of the new classes that had been laid out and it was just fascinating. And people were responding to the media creator creators who do YouTube videos. We covered that a little bit last month for Elden Ring has been covered. I've been covering this very well and they It's very professional, very interesting. The updates are fantastic. They've increased and long gated the gameplay, they balance things. So it's not too easy. It's not too hard. That's one of the things I really liked about the convergence mod, because the original Elden Ring vanilla game was very hard, especially for new players getting into it, you just hit a wall, in terms of being able to do things and play things. And the fun factor just plummets. Because as soon as you get frustrated, because you can't do something, you're gonna get killed over and over, you just start going well, I don't want to play this game, it's too hard. The convergence mod still maintains their the level of difficulty, but they give you many more ways to get around that. So it simplifies things that makes it a bit easier. And I would urge anybody who wants to start playing Elden Ring is to get this convergence mod, it's free. It's downloadable, the instant installation is a snap, on PC. That's what I use. By the way, I bought a dedicated laptop for that. And it's performing perfectly by Asus, I should send you the specs on that Tracy for that laptop. Yeah, that way we can share it and maybe a picture. Yeah, I'll do that. That way people could check it out. But anyway, check out the new convergence mod update 1.4, we'll put a link in the show notes for that, and play it because you'll love it. Brilliant.

Tracy Harwood 31:36
I've got one final thing and it's a bit of a biggie,

Ricky Grove 31:39
don't tell me it's AI because I'm leaving, no, no it's not

Tracy Harwood 31:43
AI, it's a bit more a little bit more say. Very last thing I wanted to tell you. Today, I picked up that a Minecrafter that I spotted on YouTube has said he was he's being sued. I had to check it out. And it turns out that he's used a brand name with a recreated building in a digital twin of a city that he and over 1000 others have been working on for more than seven six for more than six years, nearly seven years, which is apparently endorsed by the game. And in fact, this digital city that they've built in Minecraft is recognised by the Guinness World Records is the biggest sim ever created in Minecraft to date. The brand is suing him for what appears to be a trademark infringement, asking that their name be removed from the sim and also to delete the page relating to the sim from the internet. And the organisation has filed a copyright strike to his YouTube channel as well. Now the creator contested the strike, which YouTube removed. But now the organisation has issued a court order against this creator. And if he fails to turn up in court, he has been threatened with six months in jail. The tuber is at pains to state that the channel where they promote the project does not make money and never has. And I think this is quite an interesting one. For a number of reasons. It's really hard to see what this brand actually has to gain from this process that is that it's going through, I would have thought anyone would would want to have their brand represented in in such an amazing digital project. Frankly, it's it's a transformative use of the brand, which is actually not related to the business operations at all. Their an insurance company, I'm not actually going to even credit them with mentioning what their name is on our show here. But I do think the creators behind the sim are maybe missing a trick in the way that they're responding to this whole threat. Now, of course, they're pissed off, I can fully appreciate they're also frightened by the legal threats as well. And it's very much a David and Goliath situation where the one thing I think that they have at their advantage, though is is or to their advantages. That is the creative skills that they've got. And frankly, that's how I would deal with it. I would be creative with how they respond to this. I think this is going to go to Well, I think it is I think it will go to court, I think I think the young man who's trying to deal with this is standing his ground. He's fairly well known on YouTube. I'll put a link to the video where he explains what's I hope he gets legal representation, because I think he deserves it. Because I think this process is incredibly heavy handed. And I actually think the outcome of it will have quite serious implications perhaps not for creatives, but for city councils and numerous others who are developing digital twin models. Now I know this one has been done in Minecraft. But there are lots of folks experimenting with a whole heap of technology, to create visually rich digital twins with using the IP of a breadth of stakeholders for which they do not have explicit permission to use that IP, that trademark in the representation in the digital twin. So I'm very interested to see how this one ends up. It's I think it's a pretty serious issue. I, I My gut feeling. I don't think the company will win this one if it gets to court, which is obviously what the the, you know, the young creator does too, however, I think the very fact that it's going to if it gets all that way, I think the very fact that it that it could go all that way, we really need to be watching this one like a hawk because of the implications for a whole host of other stuff that's related to it. So this one, I'm sorry

Ricky Grove 36:05
to hear that and make sure you keep us updated on what's going on with it. Because it just, it seems to me to be an example of they may be justified in their complaint, but the way they handle it is so so mean spirited, as if somehow they they think these game related people are just fools, and they're just going to crush them because they're so powerful. You know, I just look so silly, so much easier to contact them and say, Hey, this is a violation. either remove the content, or send us X amount of money, you know, and work with them to try to try to solve the problem as opposed to these bastards, we're gonna we're gonna make a lesson out of them, and just crush them. That's just terrible, terrible way to do it. If it does go to court. I hope they get a judge who was understanding of that?

Tracy Harwood 37:01
I think it you know, it's a transformative use. It isn't intended to be an insurance offer. At all.

Damien Valentine 37:10
I agree it Ricky has a massive overreach, because they didn't want their brands to be using it. So you just send email say, can you just please remove our name from the city? Yeah. Yeah, you can make up name

Ricky Grove 37:22
or something. The problem? Yeah, does.

Damien Valentine 37:24
And you know, it's gonna damage that brand as well, because people are gonna think well, they massively overreacted to something because completely harmless. I get I understand some copyright claims. Very justified. But this and this reaction to it is just way over the top. There are a bunch

Ricky Grove 37:43
of bullies is what they are. Yes,

Tracy Harwood 37:45
exactly. Bullies, corporate bullies.

Damien Valentine 37:48
And what are they gonna do when they look at the Google Streetview? Because I see exactly who's gonna be visible in it to Google as well. Yeah,

Ricky Grove 37:58
no, they won't do that. Because they know they'll get punched in the face if they try to do that. But a bunch of gaming kids who cares? Well, we'll teach them a lesson. It's the it's a kind of thing where kids crossing an elderly guys yard and he takes a shotgun and fires at them. You know? It's like, dude, just put a sign out there says don't do that. Yeah, no, it's just way over. Well, that's bad news. And you're ending the thing on a sour note.

Tracy Harwood 38:29
Yeah, I'm really sorry. It's like, yeah. All right. I'm sorry to lower the tone. That's okay. Anyway, I look forward to next.

Ricky Grove 38:39
Yep, we got another episode. Come in next week. This was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed talking to you guys about the news. I could basically talk with you about anything and it would be fun, but this was great. Check our show notes at Completely Machinima.com. And also we'd like to hear from you. What do you think of some of this news and things that we're reporting on? Talk at completely machinima.com we'll definitely try to get a message to Phil so he can come in and chat with us. Phil, wherever you are. We love you.

Tracy Harwood 39:09
I don't think he'll hear you - he's in Ontario!

Ricky Grove 39:20
well anyway, thanks a lot, folks. We'll see you next time. Bye. Bye.

Damien Valentine 39:23
Bye bye. Bye.