Phil Rice 01:14
Hello and welcome to And now for something completely machinima, the podcast about machinima, virtual production and related technologies. My name is Phil rice, and I'm here with my co hosts. Tracy Harwood, hello and Damien Valentine, hello. We finally figured out how to stagger the timing on the intro. It's always a matter of, do I say the names one after the other? And then you guys, hello. So I figured this time I'm just going to pause and we'll, we'll just do it that way. So, yeah, great. All right, so we're here to talk about my film pick for this month. This is a brand new film. It's about a month old. So it was released in January of 2026 and I hope I'm pronouncing this right, because I don't find that I use this word very often in day to day talking. But ersatz is the name of this title of this film made by a Creator who goes by the name of Saint Griever. And this is a solo animated film. I mean, there are other collaborators involved, but the animation part of it was largely a solo project. Kickstarter funded, and it is rendered. It was created in Blender using the EV engine, which is kind of considered blender, has the EV engine and the cycles engine. They're two different methods of rendering. And the cycles engine is the one that we saw in Tracy's pick from this month the I built a self aware robot where there's a it's capable of a photo realistic kind of sheen to things very, very, very, very high fidelity image. Eevee is more of a stylized image. It's strong for those kinds of things. And if I'm not mistaken, the film that the blender film that won the Oscar for Best Animated Feature, was it just last year or flow? I'm fairly certain that that was rendered with the EV engine, not the cycles engine and that. And if you've seen flow, it does have a very stylized look to it. It's, it's a beautiful, beautiful film. So an Eevee is kind of getting more and more attention from people who work in blender as a stylistic choice, that it's kind of a, I think it's a choice. Ricky would would really appreciate that. It's, a choice to not make photo realism the top priority. It's more about what's appropriate to the style. And I think that for this film in particular, it's very well suited to the style of the render fits with this very surreal kind of other worldly story. I won't dig into spoilers too much for a couple of reasons. One, just out of courtesy that this is a film that deserves to be seen and absorbed, and also because I won't claim that I even understand fully the implications of this story enough to spoil it properly so, but it is set essentially in a there's a world war one esthetic to it. So there's, there's, there's some scenes that. That the unmistakable look of the the Western Front trenches and even the helmets and the weaponry that are going on and the central, what I think is the central character, basically has, has had amnesia, has memory loss, which is, which is kind of central to the story, but also it's, it's a, it's a very well used and commonly used device in storytelling, when, I don't know for how much we've talked about this on the show before, but you know, in a story, sometimes you need a character that's in the scene that doesn't know what's going on, because it gives a natural feeling excuse for other characters to talk about things you wouldn't normally talk about, to ask stupid questions, so to speak, you know. And so different films use different devices for that. Sometimes it's it's the new trainee is showing up and doesn't know the ropes yet, and so that gives all the experienced members of their team a reason to talk about it. And that's kind of the effect of this, that there's this character who I believe is named mop head, who doesn't know what's going on, who doesn't have any recollection of, you know, having experienced any of this before. But very quickly, it becomes apparent that he indeed must have that he's not the new guy. He's someone who has been part of this and has, has lost memory of what came before. And so it gives a perfect scenario for, first of all, for a great sense of mystery, because we're definitely positioned with that character's point of view, in a sense of what is going on here. This is strange, and the things that that his colleagues are saying are very cryptic, because we too don't know what's going on. So just wonderfully, wonderfully executed. The visual look of this is, I would, I would classify it as it's got a surreal type of sheen. There's, there's a sense of it going in and out of dream state. And at some points, there are some actual dream or vision scenes that don't look all that radically different from the real world that the character is in. So it just, it's very it creates this intriguingly unsettling feeling that permeates the whole telling of this wonderful, wonderful voice performances, just and very unique characters. What I mean by unique is, is that he's designed them with some physical characteristics that make them very easy to identify. You don't mistake one for the other. They have some distinguishing features that's very helpful when you're throwing the audience into a scenario where they don't have any idea what's going on. At least there's some distinct voices and looks to these characters that kind of gives you something to hold on to. You know, while the while this very strange story, which is not fully explained in this episode, my understanding is that this is part one of an unspecified number of parts. You know, the the runtime on this is about 25 minutes. So I would if this is a feature length type of thing, I would expect there's probably two to three more parts of the screenplay that exist. It clearly is not something that they're making up as they go along. This is, this is very thoughtfully planned execution of a story with a with a longer arc in mind. And yeah, I just it. The algorithm delivered this up to me out of the blue a few days after it came out. I don't know how I lucked into that, but I was just mesmerized by this, and I'm very curious to hear what you guys think of it.

Tracy Harwood 09:37
Well, 27 minutes long, actually, Phil, not 25 and I have to say, after about 15 minutes, it did begin to feel a little long. However, it actually had me mostly captivated. In fact, I'd go so far as to say I had, I don't think I've ever seen anything. Quite so disturbing as this. Apparently, it took the guy one and a half years to make, after which the the the audio was kind of added. So there's two stage creative process to it, which I think is, is interesting. We'll probably come on to that a little bit later, it's one of those works, I guess you you could immediately label it as surreal horror, not just surreal, no, yeah, right. But that description, I think, really undersells what's going on. Saint apparently says he drew inspiration from culture, science, history and art from all over the world, not just Western media. And I think what you've got in here is sort of a breadth of visual symbolism and a real thematic depth to the short I think at its core is core, the you know, ersatz is how you pronounce it. It's concept of replaceability. The word, as I understand it, literally means substitute something inferior that that stands in for the real thing. So it's about replaceability, and that idea, I think, defines the entire world that st griva has has created. Here, the film portrays bodies that are interchangeable. Death feels logistical rather than tragic, and identity itself seems to be optional. I think the horror isn't just what happens it's how normal it all feels as this story is being told. I think that's why the setting looks the way it does. This couldn't really exist in a clean sci fi future or any kind of heroic fantasy world. It kind of this sort of story lives in this decaying, early industrial post war space very reminiscent, as you said, of World War One era machinery, machinery and trench warfare. Everything kind of looks worn down. It's all rusted, it's exhausted. It's a world where industry is hap has basically outlived meaning. And visually, I think it draws from that kind of dark surrealism and grotesque art traditions. I mean, the bodies aren't meant to be anatomically correct. They're symbolic. Flesh blends into machinery. Movements feel kind of ritualistic. It's a form that's not really about Jump Scares or spectacle. It's about communicating trauma and dehumanization in a way that language just can't do. It's very reminiscent, for me, of artists like bexinski, who portrayed skeletal flesh warping figures in ruined worlds. And also Francis, right?

Phil Rice 12:58
Oh, that's a great that's a great reference there, yes,

Tracy Harwood 13:02
absolutely, yeah. And Francis Bacon, who kind of presents bodies as, I don't know, psycho psychological trauma, rather than anatomy per se. And I guess you could kind of identify a number of other sort of late 20th century symbolistic, grotesque artists, and probably also German expressionists, with its kind of use of harsh light and black and white esthetic. I mean, it's not necessarily black and white, but you get, you get a sense of that in it. I think what's especially interesting is how culturally non specific the film is. There are no flags and no named countries and no explicit politics in it. And that ambiguity, I think, is actually doing some real work by basically refusing to say, this is about a war of this nation. The film avoids really becoming an argument or a kind of historical reenactment. Instead, it becomes about systems, about things like how large institutions consume people, how violence becomes a routine, and how individuals become replaceable parts in that kind of machinery. When you read the comments, there's a lot of people making reference to Eastern European or Ukrainian wars in there, and I can see that actually, but there isn't anything that's actually explicitly stated outright that I could pick up the mood I think aligns with a cultural memory shaped by these kind of repeated wars, by kind of occupation and famine and an industrial sacrifice, basically. And in those traditions, what you've got is suffering that's often portrayed as kind of cyclical and impersonal, not not at all heroic in any way or redemptive, but basically just endured. And you've got that. That that's the sense of the story. Really. There's also a kind of a deep distrust of grand narratives in this. In this short I think there's no sense of there being a glorious sacrifice in any way. There's no destiny to it. There's no victory, at least in this first episode, which, as you say, it's kind of pilot. If it goes to a full feature, I'm not sure where it'll go. Really, it brought to mind my mind, I think, one of the most disturbing poems I ever read in my youth, which was, do you remember this one, the dulcet decorum est by Wilfred Owen, which, for those of you that haven't read it. It's a world war one poem that brutally dismantles the idea that it's a sweet and fitting thing to die for one's country, which is exactly what that Latin phrase claims Owen, for example, used gas warfare and broken bodies to expose how obscene that slogan really is, and ersatz imagery is therefore really quite culturally significant. I think in contrast to these kind of Imperial storytelling techniques, where suffering is often framed as meaningful or necessary, it presents suffering as being mechanical. The system keeps going, even when it's clearly very hollow. So you can kind of really feel the influence of the 20th century stuff going on in here. I also get a sense of circus and freak show imagery in it. There's a kind of theatrical quality to the figures, like they're being displayed or performed rather than simply existing. And historically, that that kind of spectacle sits right at the intersection of entertainment, sort of exploitation and kind of dehumanization as well, which I think fits perfectly with the film's themes. Probably the machine at the time the bodies were being constituted, if I'm not to give too much away, it's got those kind of themes within. It feels to me, like it just had simply run out of human parts and actually then just imposed animal bodies to create something, anything that could kind of fight. And I think, you know, essentially, the film just doesn't offer comfort in any way. There's no cathartic release through it, there's no hope. It's not nihilistic, though. It's about a level of restraint that you see through it. And it basically seems to say that some systems just don't get redeemed, that the damage just doesn't heal. Survival isn't triumph, it's just continuation, and it actually leaves you feeling horrified and sick, really sick. So when kind of people might ask why this world is so bleak, you know, the obvious answer is, it just has to be. It's the only kind of world where dehumanization feels ordinary, and instead of kind of shocking, the horror isn't really the monsters or the imagery, it's just how calmly everything is accepted, what it's become. And what, I think, What's especially interesting with its approach is this esthetic style that's being used. And there's, you know, that it kind of portrays a hand craftiness about it, sort of hand drawn and shaded, almost painterly at times, which I think is why I went to look for, you know, artists that align to this rather than films per se.

Phil Rice 18:34
That's not coincidental, by the way, from what I understand reading on the making of and the process of this film. The My understanding is that the characters that st Griffith created and animated were directly based on concept art that was developed for the piece. Really very interesting. Yeah, that they were actually not just inspired by but that some of that concept artwork is part of the skin of these characters, if I understand it right. Which is amazing.

Tracy Harwood 19:10
That's fascinating, because the other thing I got from it was, was montage from kind of cut out symbols and processes as well. It's really, it's a it's a very layered approach. I think it's very, it's really very interesting how it's been done. I think it's, you know, I describe it as both gritty and uncanny, which I think results in this utterly astonishing quality of film. I don't think of anything. I haven't, I haven't seen anything quite like it. It's just absolutely incredible. The only thing that came close to what this is. Do you remember that Warhammer series that we reviewed a couple of years back, which was partly hand drawn, that was a little bit concept, oh yeah, as well. But this, I haven't seen anything like it at all. There. Some really interesting little details that I picked up too, like the medical symbol being one of the is it a ruberos, you know, depicting the serpent, or a dragon eating its own tail, which basically represents that kind of eternal cycle of destruction and rebirth and infinity.

Phil Rice 20:18
The medical symbol is typically the snake wound around a staff. But then there's also the other symbol of the snake eating its own tail. And it kind of, they kind of conflate in a very, I think, deliberate, yeah, conflation of those two images.

Tracy Harwood 20:34
Yeah, I think so too. I thought that was incredibly well done. But it's a symbol that you see in other forms too in the film, because you do see a dragon in the clouds, for example, at times, I also think the editing and the camera angles are really quite unnerving at times, often below the character's eye line, which I think is a really interesting choice. It kind of makes these creatures feel sort of omnipresent and otherworldly, larger than man, or maybe that you are just somehow inferior looking at them. Or maybe you are just meant to respect that ultimately, sacrifice, the sacrifice that they've kind of had to give to be eternal soldiers, is something that you need to respect as you, as you kind of watch this, which I think feeds into one of the narrative arcs, being that of a soldier trying to find out where he's come from and who he was before. I think, quite apart from the animation, the world building, the voice acting, as you said, absolutely outstanding. Every single one of them is so well done. I mean, it really is superb quality sound and really interesting character portrayals. I mean,

Phil Rice 21:50
they're really rare. It's really rare to encounter a situation where the entire cast is at a high level like that. Yeah, it's not all that unusual to have some strong performances and then some others that are clearly people who were are less experienced. That's just normal, and especially for self funded, independent projects, that's a normal thing to encounter. It was quite amazing that this sounds like a professional cast. I don't know anything about who they are, what their experience is, but it's quite impressive.

Tracy Harwood 22:30
Yeah, I couldn't find anything, so my guess is they're probably not but what I enjoyed about that is the there's so many different accents being spoken. They're all, of course, speaking English, but it's the way they've been blended together. It's like, it's like they're speaking from a beyond place. It's a it's a fascinating approach to the edit. I think, I guess, if anything, the interplay between them was a little confusing, because there isn't, this isn't really a tale with an ending as such. It's kind of, it's a bit like the central symbolism. I mean it, you know, having said that, it kind of works really well as a device. But for me, it's actually the voice acting that carries the sense making process. For me, because it's for sure, the visuals are hard to discern beyond the recognition of the horrific, and I mean truly horrific scenes from from the walls we've all seen. In fact, I think that the horror of this really was the dominant reaction I had to watching it until about halfway way through, when I started to think, Well, where is this actually going? And I didn't really get an answer to that. The sound design and the music, I think were, I mean, it's very fitting, brings everything together, although it's interesting that it's it wasn't more dominant. Well, it just wasn't dominant, which, which I think was, you know, to have achieved that not A, not A dominant sort of music scape for it, I think, is quite an interesting thing, because it was evidently, really very complimentary. The sounds of the wet room actually made me feel sick. I can only say that was revolting, absolutely made me feel sick. I think the only criticism, though, is that at times, given that, I mean, there is in no way this can be described as being romantic, as a portrayal of war and death, but very occasionally, the music does take on that kind of esthetic, but not enough to lift it in any way. Frankly, I

Phil Rice 24:45
noticed that too, and I I wondered if that was deliberately being employed with irony. Maybe because you're right, the actual action that's taking place that it's devoid. Of any romanticism whatsoever, and yet sometimes the music would, I don't know, I found myself reading into that quite a bit of was that. Was that a purposeful choice to almost a paradox right of the music still yearning to evoke those romantic ideals that clearly don't exist in this world. Yeah? And wonderful. I just love that. It made me think about that, yeah?

Tracy Harwood 25:26
Well, it made me, well, the other thing, the other literary piece that it made me think of, was bird song. I mean, you know, the that was that that may makes me shudder even now, being stuck in those tunnels, being gassed, and every now and again thinking of the love of your life kind of thing. Just, yeah, well, in terms of this one, you know, the whole thing for me was, it was, it was grotesque and macabre, the only real ways I can describe it. It's one of the most astonishing things I've seen for some time. I think it's absolutely amazing. What an incredible talent this creator has. He is, as you said, apparently, in the process of writing at least a couple more parts of this, from what I can pick up, goodness knows what fresh horror we're going to witness, because the scene at the end of this short actually left me with a real sense of dread as to what he might do. So yeah, thanks for sharing that film, disturbing to say the least.

Damien Valentine 26:26
Yeah. So I got a couple of things to say, and actually, in response to some of the other things you both have said, so I'll start with that, and the concept up. Look of it. I didn't realize that was the character designs were actually straight from the concept art. Obviously, that you have the concept art for a reason, because you're lifting those designs, but usually the final result doesn't match that. It's kind of got a similar look to it, but right there's changes, and this, I'm guessing, is pretty much exact, the closest I could think of in terms of that is the I talked about last year of the predator animated film, where they went for a moving concept art style for the render. And it's kind of got similar to look to that. But obviously the predator film is a very colorful film, and this is not. It's a very brown and drab, which absolutely suits the atmosphere of this story. There it is very long, but it kind of feels like it feels long to watch, but that is also part of the atmosphere of it as well, because these characters have been in this war for so long, they seem to have forgotten everything else. They just everything is about their life in this conflict, and that's what they live for. They don't even know why they're fighting anymore, or anything. That's one of the reasons why you don't see this, the flags or any of that. It's just they're here to fight the enemy. But it doesn't really matter what the reason was anymore. It's just the case of you just go out and fight. And I was going somewhere with that. But yeah, you know, it kind of the long feeling of watching this film adds to that atmosphere, because you kind of get a feel of what these characters are experiencing yourself themselves.

Tracy Harwood 28:23
I mean, just as you were saying that, do you get a sense of the the way it's portrayed as being folks stuck in the middle of a war where they've forgotten the beginning and they don't know when an end will come, and therefore it's metaphorical rather than, I know, a literal horror story.

Damien Valentine 28:42
Yeah, I mean, I obviously, I don't know what it's like to be in World War One, but I would imagine when you're in the trenches day after day, not knowing when you're going to be told to go over the top, and you hear the you get the gas coming over, and the guns and the bombs and all of that, you're not really thinking about the reason to fight anymore, you're just existing. You get through the day, and then the same thing happens the next day. You wake up and again, you're just praying you get through the next day and the next day and so on. And obviously, lots of people didn't, which probably adds to that experience as well. Saying, you know, you know, how many people have, you know, lots of people have died in this conflict, and you still want to be one of them. And it just goes on. It just feels like it's going on forever. And this film, I think, really portrays that excellently, and again, but the long feeling of watching this, and I remember what I was gonna say is the some of the this, I feel like this is the kind of film you need to watch more than once to fully get it and I've been thinking about doing that. But at the same time, I feel like I don't know if I want to watch this a second time, because it is a very dark and unsettling film, like I want to experience it again in. See what I missed the first time around, but at the same time, it takes a lot to work yourself up to watching it. Now, for everyone watching and listening to our show, please don't let my words just then put you off watching it. Watch it at least worth watching, but don't expect to have a good experience. It's about it's not a good experience watching it, but in a good way, is the way I would describe it. It makes you think and you experience things, but they're not pleasant things, but it's because it's a good film. It's not because it's a bad film.

Phil Rice 30:30
Yeah, I suspect that the the World War One imagery, which did with the trenches and even the style of helmets and everything, I don't think there's no way to know for sure what the intent was, but I feel like that that was maybe an even bigger influence here than then we're we're assuming, I think, and I think the reason for that is Because World War One, it did. It changed warfare forever. And and the the men who were in those battles, they really felt like this, like not metaphorically, but literally, felt like this is, we don't know why we're fighting anymore. We're not advancing, or when we do, we have to retreat. It's, you know, it's just, what's the purpose here? And it's just a meat grinder, you know, it's just World War One. That's when it became clear that, more so than in any other, any other war, that's the scale of it is just hard to get your mind around until you maybe you can get a sense of it if you look at the statistics of casualties and injuries in a given week of World War One versus entire wars from prior like, it's unbelievable. And the whole, I think that a lot of the especially experienced soldiers who entered World War One, even down to the uniforms. I mean, they were still riding on cavalry and still carrying swords and things like that, like it was, it was very much the older, romantic, heroic notion of war. All those illusions just got crushed, and it became just men getting just ground up in this machine, really. You know, with with the the artillery in particular, was just such a shock, the number of deaths that that could just cause in just no time. And you know, you the powers that were involved in that war, the philosophy, because they didn't know what else to do was just throw more men at the problem. And, you know, there's certainly some elements of of that going on in World War Two as well. I think if you, if you study the some of the scenarios with the way that the Japanese fought in World War Two, it was very much a sense of, you know, just volume of men and the results were catastrophic in the face of this new technology and machinery that is just very, very efficient at stopping humans from doing much of anything. So there's a, there's a podcast that I would recommend if you're interested in this topic. It's, unfortunately it's not available for free. This particular let's call it a season. Dan Carlin is the the guy's name. He's a he said, he insists he's not a historian, but his podcast is historical content. And the series in particular that I'd recommend looking for is called blueprint for Armageddon. And it is, it is the story of World War One, starting with what, what set things off, and then getting into the details of how that war actually unfolded. And it is every bit as disturbing and hard to get through as this film, you know, in terms of, it's just gruesome, it's just it's just an audio podcast. There's no visual component to it, but it really makes plain, just. Just how, how awful the changes were that were introduced in shock like fashion to the whole world when this war broke out, because all of this, the changes to the way that war was fought, and the numbers of dead and injured, it's just, it's, it's staggering. And we, I think, I think it's a war that's easy for us to forget about nowadays, because world war two kind of looms larger. And statistically, you know, was, was even worse, but it, it wasn't quite as shocking. I mean, I guess if you factor in the the debut of the atomic bomb, then that's that's certainly something new and terrifying that came along during that but the everything about the way war was fought changed with World War One, everything and the learning process was devastating, was was very costly, and I really It wouldn't surprise me at all if the maker of ersatz hadn't spent quite a bit of time getting to know that history, because it really shines through in this film, this sense of those soldiers felt like this war will never end, like they really literally wrote home saying that this war will never end. And when I first kind of got the sense of this film watching it the first time, I thought maybe part of what this film is doing is taking that feeling that those World War One soldiers had and saying, what if, what if it just never ended? What if it never did? And the system you're talking about, Tracy just rose up and became the only king in the world anymore, and everyone serves it, and it just goes on and never, ever ends. And, yeah, that's horrifying. It is. That's a horrifying prospect. And we can look at, you know, different conflicts that have come since the beginning of the 20th century and all the way up till the present, and try to draw parallels or whatever, but none of them is quite as horrible as the notion that what was going on in World War One just never stopped. Just kept that, that machine just kept rolling and never stopped, and that there's a real sense of that in this, this film, of that the these, these characters have been involved in this so long, like you said, they've been reconstituted, and they've run out of of parts, right? And it's, it's that, that sense of resources being depleted and human beings are completely expendable. That was very much the reality of trench warfare of World War One. And there were some real concern. I mean, that's why they thought, you know, every time a war breaks out nowadays, it seems like there's somebody who goes, Oh, this is the beginning of the end of the world. But they really thought that then, like, they really thought, this is horrible on a scale that we don't even have scales to measure how bad this is, and nobody seems to be winning, and it's just going to keep going until we run out of people. You know, there was a real sense of that. It's, it's, it sounds hyperbolic, but it wasn't that really was the fear. And so I don't know, I kind of, for me, the interpretation of this that leapt out was, yeah, let's look at that. What if it just never ended? Or maybe his kind of tongue in cheek message here is, guess what? It never did end. It may look like it did, but it never actually ended. Maybe this is still what we're doing, you know, and it looks different, and it's disguised now, and the players names have changed and the boundaries have changed, but this is still what we're doing. There's still at least a part of humanity who is just caught in this, and it just and it just seems like it will never end, you know, so and, yeah, that's not, that's not a say I'm looking forward. That's not a, that's not a pick me up kind of, kind of movie. But it's still, you know, if that is indeed part of what he's saying here, then

Phil Rice 39:59
you know, as. Much as it's like, can we even stomach to go there, thinking about that, dwelling on that? Can we afford not to, you know, if, if he, if he's right, can we not? Can we just think it'll just go away if we don't look you know? So it's man, it's Yeah, and when's the last time that the film we brought across our our table here had us thinking about stuff like that. I mean, it's, it's often heavy duty stuff. So, yeah, I was just, I was blown away by this, this film, and I'm glad that it had an impact on you guys, too. I know it was hard to watch. I think, I think in the notes when we when I posted, I said, say, Just give this 10 minutes. That wasn't just because of how long it was. It's because of how intense it was. Yeah, it is intense, and I thought

Tracy Harwood 40:50
it's salutary to watch it. I think everybody should watch it at least once.

Phil Rice 40:54
It's an important film. You don't get, we don't get to say that about a lot of what we look at, we we find stuff that's likable, that's beautiful, that's fun, but it's not all that often that something is important. And frankly, that's not true out of Hollywood most of the time either. This is important. Yeah.

Tracy Harwood 41:13
I mean, we've seen films with very, you know, deep, deeply embedded messages about the future of humanity, but never actually portraying it in this kind of way. I think it's very interesting,

Phil Rice 41:27
really looking it in the face. Yeah, and it's not easy, not easy for the viewer. I I wonder what the experience of the filmmaker was in that regard, because if watching this has the effect that it had on us, you know, painstakingly animating it, really getting into it. And, yeah, that's, that's, that has a cost for sure. Must have been stylistic. What's that I

Damien Valentine 41:56
said, it must have been very hard to make, not from the technical perspective, but just from the emotional right perspective of the Creator.

Phil Rice 42:04
One thing that I forgot to mention in my introduction of the film was that I found interesting was the there's a there's almost a stop motion quality to some of the to most of the animation, which that's not something blender does natively. I'm not sure how he did that exactly, because it doesn't have the look of key framed animation. Key framed animation tends to be smooth, right? So did he do that by chopping up the frame rate before the final render? I don't know. I'd love to know the answer on that, but because it's got a stop motion feel, but it's not stop motion. It's key framed animation. It's it's blender, but that that also it fits so well with the visual style to have it be kind of jagged. I just loved it. So, yeah, wonderful stuff. Wonderful. I know what you mean, like the stabbing is wonderful.

Tracy Harwood 43:05
We rarely have such depth to discuss with one with our film picks. I think it's very interesting from that point of view. Be really interesting what Ricky says about it, actually.

Phil Rice 43:17
Yeah, I want to hear what Ricky says, and I'd love to hear what our viewers and listeners think too. So if you've got thoughts on this, this film, drop us a comment wherever you watch or listen, or an email at talk at completely machindma.com my name is Phil rice, and on behalf of my co hosts Damien Valentine and Tracy Harwood, we wish you a good day. You.