Phil Rice 01:17
Hello and welcome to And now for something completely machinima, the podcast about machinima, virtual production and related technologies. My name is Phil rice, and I'm here with my co hosts, Ricky Grove, Damian Valentine and welcoming back from Mars, Portugal and wherever else she was. Tracy Harwood, Paraguay. That's it, yes. So in honor of her return, we're going to finally cover her, her film pick for this month. So Tracy, why don't you tell us about this

Tracy Harwood 01:47
one? Yeah, well, thank you very much. Must admit, I'm really glad to be back from my travels, although, actually I did really enjoy my time in Prague. I was in Prague where I was actually with a machinima maker we all know and love, but I will tell you more about that in next month's News episode. This week's Pick actually isn't it's an unreal it's an unreal film called reflect, but it isn't using the very latest unreal tools as we record our episode here today. But I do feel it's a fitting film pick for the final film review of season five, not least because it's only one of two of our picks throughout the whole year that has been made using Unreal Engine. I'll probably reflect on that a bit more in our next episode, when we do our year in review, which is episode 200 Can you believe that? Anyway, this was an interesting film choice for me for a couple of reasons. Firstly, because it's very evident that this filmmaker is someone who is testing some interesting concepts through their creative practice, using virtual tools. And secondly, because the creator is Turkish, not that the language really matters, because, you know, the language of story doesn't really need an understanding of words to comprehend what's going on, which is partly why I think it's a very clever short now it's almost eight minutes long, and is a story that follows what seems to be a lone soldier responding to an SOS in a seemingly remote location. When he arrives at some kind of Bunker, he finds he's in a sort of post apocalyptic, kind of Fallout area. He's fully suited up, he's armed, which wasn't immediately obvious, as he was driving the car into the location. But then the story gets a little what would the word be? Anachronistically broken, and you realize very quickly, with some quite clever shots of just split seconds, that time as you're as it's revealed to you, is no longer linear, and that there's something quite strange happening. And the story is not just about the aftermath of a nuclear war, although that's clearly happened too. The things that make this an interesting story are how the place and its strangeness are conveyed. It's done using sound that clickety click of a supposed Geiger counter. Although it's not really obvious where that originates, one assumes it's some sort of device in his protective armor, and the other is visual, that kind of snow, like atmosphere of particles that fall, whether the soldier is inside or outside of this bunker. Now you could argue that perhaps that wouldn't happen inside, or that the particles would behave in. In different ways inside, not just appear to fall like rain, but I think the whole point here is that the director has attempted to lean into their own technical limitations and also the technicalities of Unreal in order to make these aspects part of the story itself. We've seen this done before, to pretty great effect, actually, although I don't think this particular film is anywhere close to the quality of Martin Bell's prasenberg Ridge, but certainly the esthetic choices made here, I think, are probably fairly similar in reason to the ones that Martin made when, when he made that film. So the particles become part of the strangeness that's kind of central to the story, as does the clicking noise, the atmosphere, the physics, the dreamscape quality of the character and the object finishes, which actually are very clean and shiny, and the intensity of the alighting, whether that's from emergency lighting, the explosions, or the portrayal of that sort of gray, gray daylight. And the big giveaway, I think, in in the story, is the use of the pyramid symbol, which is a, I think, a representation of death and afterlife, symbolizing, probably, spiritual ascension and a journey towards enlightenment, perhaps. Or from another perspective, that shape is also associated with the Eye of Providence, although I don't think that's really part of what this story is about. So for me, this is clearly both a story and a film concept test as well as a tool set test. And should you need further explanation of that, the same concepts and assets in this film are also used in a number of other films by this creator, whose name is D run by the way, which you can see particularly referenced in the show reel and the 2024 show reel that they did. Now, I did a little digging around. And I believe, although I'm not 100% sure, that this short has been made by a member of an electronica music and indeed, and DJing duo from Istanbul, Istanbul called D run. I think the explanation, should there need to be a specific one, is that unreal came to their attention during covid, when, clearly, like so many other creatives, they were not able to travel and produce the kind of work that they normally do now. D runs biography, interestingly, indicates that they are fascinated by the transformation of dust particles. They state their music concentrates on sophisticated, multicultural, electronic expression and undefined layers, creating a timeless, universal experience that invites you to dance. They also use adjectives such as courageous, unbound and earthly to describe their work, which they say is influenced by human history and multicultural references. However, what's fascinating with that description is that reflect this film is a visual representation of what they describe as their musical style. That's quite some feat. I think now clearly there's an Eastern and Western European and Middle Eastern references in the film, though I think it's subject matter and it's spiritual references. Probably they're probably more Middle Eastern, Eastern in their in their origin. When I was sort of first watching it, I thought it was quite interesting that the hills we see at the beginning actually, they actually reminded me of the Hollywood Hills. But I'm assuming that a standard scenery pack has been used in on in non real I'm assuming that because, well, I don't know. They've used mega scan, so maybe they have used photographs and expanded upon photographs the music, although, I mean, it's not their own music, I think it's still an interesting choice. The song we hear on the radio is the song voices in my head by falling in reverse, which included in their music videos, clips from cyberpunk 2077, and then towards the end of reflect, you actually hear That kind of classic song from Stephen King's the mist, which is called the host of Seraphim by Dead Can Dance. So I think there's lots of cultural references that convey the meaning of the visuals, and some of it is quite subtle. I think now, of course, I've kind of skirted over the technical problems with the film. Um, and giving them a slightly positive spin, not because they can't be seen as problems, of course, but I think there are some other explanations and deliberate choices that have been made which kind of merit consideration from a slightly different perspective.

Ricky Grove 10:14
This I gotta hear,

Tracy Harwood 10:16
yeah, well, yeah. Well, I'm going to ask you, what do you think?

Ricky Grove 10:21
No, no, you go. You set it up. So now you gotta, yeah, you got the hit or,

Tracy Harwood 10:25
well, I think, I think it's kind of, how shall I say it? There's, there's parts of it that are, they don't, it doesn't gel together well as a story. There's, there's bits and pieces of it that are from different time periods. The the whole doesn't easily make a story that, you know, the pyramid doesn't easily fit into what is being conveyed. But like I said, I've tried to find an explanation for what's being conveyed. And I think the cultural, the under references, and the cultural kind of perspective all being applied, I think you can read it in a different way. So yeah,

Ricky Grove 11:13
I'm so glad you're back, Tracy, because you provide a point of view and a perspective that is completely different from the three of us. I mean, at times, you know, when we were recording the episodes without you, there'd be a big pause where we were all expecting you to give us the background or give us a connection between cultural icons and things like that, and we realized it wasn't there. So I'm so glad because you add a flavor to the podcast that I think is is wonderful. So I'm so glad you're back, and thank you for your comments,

Tracy Harwood 11:51
however.

Ricky Grove 11:54
Well, I had problems with this because the reason I think Unreal has a particular esthetic, although I think because of the brilliance of the tool, it doesn't have to be this esthetic. But I think certain kinds of films influence other kinds of films that are made, and people tend to follow that direction. We've seen this kind of film a couple times already. In fact, I think a couple years ago, you picked a film that was almost identical

Tracy Harwood 12:30
Irradiation,

Phil Rice 12:31
yeah, yeah. Except he was going, they were going out into a forest, and then there was some kind of a blob that was, yeah, yeah. I remember the film very vividly, and it reminded this one reminded me of it a lot, right?

Ricky Grove 12:44
And I think possibly they could have been influenced by that, whereas Unreal has the tools to create anything. Sue generis from scratch, yeah. But you know, considering you know you want to be seen this other film was very popular, why not use the esthetics, or maybe those are the materials that you could get, excuse me, through the marketplace that are cheap, you know, and and you don't have to do character faces. They have masks, you know, the red versus blue thing.

Phil Rice 13:19
I almost feel like, I wonder if somewhere out there is a Unreal Engine, apocalyptic soldier film tutorial that they both followed, you know, because they're so similar, and yet they're not a rip off of one another, but esthetically and flow wise, And, yeah, it's that the similarities are stark, and yet, I fully believe that those two filmmakers haven't met each other. And those aren't the only two that take on that. Oh, what's the video game that has that esthetic? Is it called stalker? The one that's about supposed to be about post, Chernobyl, post or something? Yeah, stalker.

Ricky Grove 14:00
It has stalker. Is much more desolate, though, than this, right? This tends to be very pretty but, but the essential point I want to make is two. One is that I think unreal attracts people who are interested in the technology of of and so they create stories or films that reflect the kind of technology that you can make, and their emphasis is on getting the technology as perfect as they can, whereas they don't put enough effort into the story of what they're trying to make my my comparison to that wonderful short film that Phil picked some time ago that was made, and what, what was the film? The the young guy who was a zombie and goes back to his house. Oh, the one

Phil Rice 15:00
in Project Zomboid.

Ricky Grove 15:02
Project Zomboid, Yeah, boy, it has absolutely nothing on Unreal Engine. I mean, Unreal Engine is like the difference between a Maserati and a jalopy, you know, it just there's no comparison. Yet the story of that Project Zomboid is so superior to this film as to make them completely different. Their roles are reversed. So my point is, is that I think the creators tend to be in thrall with the technology of Unreal and they give sort of, they don't give enough effort to creating stories that I think that are important. And secondly, the particular kinds of effects and the particular kinds of looks and camera movements are all specifically unreal oriented. And I think knowing science fiction that I do, I think that's a mistake, because I think if you go to some of the masterpieces of science fiction, you'll find that they have their own unique style, their own unique way of expressing themselves. And I think by focusing on this particularly unreal related thing, they give their imagination short shrift. And lastly, I, as I've gotten older, the most, most important thing for me when I read a book or I watch a movie or watch a TV series is whether I'm engaged or not, whether it creates a world that I believe in. Unfortunately and sometimes it's my problem. I have to admit that it's not the film's problem. I'm in a bad mood that day, or I've just seen a masterpiece, or I just something about it doesn't bother me, but this film never engaged me at all. In fact, I couldn't finish it, not because it's a bad film, it's a good film, but it never brought me into its world so that I was concerned about the characters, I wanted to know what was going to happen next, which is a big thing in stories. And by the time I got halfway through, I don't I know what's going to happen at the end anyway. So why should I continue watching that's not to say again, Tracy that it was a bad choice. I think it's a good choice, but I wanted to add my feelings about the thing without disrespecting you and your choice.

Tracy Harwood 17:53
But that's my I'm not disrespected. I really wanted to debate about it because good unreal is just such an interesting engine that I don't know. We just don't seem to see great work in it.

Ricky Grove 18:08
Do we? We tend to see clones of things.

Tracy Harwood 18:12
I think prasenberg Ridge still stands out for me as an outstanding story, though, which was made in Unreal.

Ricky Grove 18:19
I agree,

Phil Rice 18:22
or maybe that, that that film flight, you remember flight, but that, of course, mixed some live action, that was but, but still, I think if, if one were to scrutinize that, which was a sci fi context, and some of the camera moves, especially like Ricky talked about, and the scene transitions you would see, you could identify it as an Unreal Engine film because of that. Yeah, there's like, certain conventions that, for whatever reason, a number of filmmakers in Unreal are following. I have to think, I'm telling you, I really suspect there's tutorials that have taught this is how you do the camera in Unreal. And so that's what's done. And it will be very interesting one day. And it's inevitable it will happen one day someone comes to unreal that doesn't know what, doesn't know that rule, and just kind of gets adventurous with how to present their story and stuff, because I don't think Unreal Engine is to blame. Like I think the toolkit, like Ricky and you both said, is incredibly versatile, and it is weird to see this rut on certain little things there. Yeah. So it is interesting. I thought the lighting in particular was a standout in this the art design is very good. I mean, that's clearly the strength. Oh yeah, yeah, of this person, Tracy. I noticed the indoor Fallout particles too, and was puzzled by that, but only for a moment. I. Yeah, and it's probably because I'm exposed to a show that you may not have seen, but it's a it's a Netflix, Netflix show that's had several seasons now, typically comes out around Halloween time, and it's called Stranger Things. And in Stranger Things, I know Damien's familiar, maybe Ricky, you've seen a little bit of it, but in Stranger Things, it is, they're dealing with an alternate reality called the the UN the Upside down, upside down. And it's this other dimension, if you will, where, but everything is dark and corrupted, and that, that kind of dark snow Fallout type thing is one of the visual indicators there. I think that Stranger Things uses it in the same way that some filmmakers will change the lookup table, like the color tone, yeah, when they're dealing with different time periods. And it helps the helps the viewer feel oriented. And I feel like that. That's the main reason Stranger Things uses that is, you know, you're in the upside down because of that dark snow. So I have a feeling this was influenced by that, and that's why, that's why the seemingly illogical, how is that happening inside a building? I think that's all that is. It's it's supposed to represent some other dimension. And if you look at how they made use of the pyramid object, which you're right, isn't explained very well, but the two different times that it's encountered, one of them, it's upside down, and one of them, it's it's reversed. You know, one of them, it's right side up, and the other is reversed. So there's clearly a sense of some kind of Mobius strip between dimensions going on here, like you said, with with regard to time and space, I think so that's a really intriguing idea. It's not terribly original, but it is an intriguing idea. There's lots of fun to be had with it. But once again, the this is the topic if, if we were to have chat GPT do a text analysis of everything we've talked about, I think chat GPT would say, Oh, this is a podcast where they talk about ambiguity, because it comes up so much. Another example where there's a needle to be threaded here, in terms of how ambiguous with the story can you be, versus how much do you give away? And this just this missed this. Missed it the needle hole. Yeah, it's, it's, it's not on the nose, but it's also, and it's not completely ambiguous, ambiguous to where it's like, you know, pull a pull a random sequence out of Twin Peaks or something, and without its context, and it feels like just, this is just crazy nonsense, right? It's not that, it's not that that's not a dig on Twin Peaks, by the way. I love Twin Peaks. Anyway, that ambiguity, it just didn't quite hit the mark. And I, I've really wrestled with, well, what would, what would have helped with that? And I think some a little bit more grounding might have helped in terms of where and when is this? You know, yeah, I get it. It's post apocalypse of some kind. But that's so broad, like even, to give me some moorings of what, where is this? What this? This mission? What's it situated within even just a hint, my

Ricky Grove 23:37
simple voice over him, maybe, yeah, yeah.

Phil Rice 23:41
Yeah. Maybe a sign that he passed while driving, something really subtle that we could just catch and go, Okay, so this is set then, or some indicator he finds an old, you know, how did they do it? In some of the Planet of the Apes movies, right? They find relics from the 20th century. So now you know, okay, it's that type of thing, so, but yeah, I think storytelling wise, that that where this ended up landing was at the end of it. I did make it to the end, not with a lot of enthusiasm, but I did. But I ended up with the sense of, Oh, I see what they were trying to do. Yeah, that's not, that's not great. That's not a great place to land. It should be, wow. They stuck the landing, you know, like, it shouldn't be a Oh, I see what they were trying to do. And that's kind of the sense that I got. And I don't mean that condescendingly. I think that about some of my own work when I look back on it, and when I was trying to be ambiguous or whatever, and I think I see what I was trying to do there, I just didn't quite stick the landing. So it's hard I admit that general little nitpicks a little bit too much talking to himself. For my, my taste like and I've that's just, that may just be a personal pet peeve of mine, but I hate it when a character is by themselves, and they say, I wonder what's going on here. You know, whatever could this be about? These are just, first of all, people don't do that. So if you're wanting it to be rooted in realism, nobody does that, except a mental patient. Nobody does that. You don't say those

Damien Valentine 25:27
things, especially not a soldier in a potentially dangerous situation, right

Phil Rice 25:31
over the over the radio. You don't say that. Secondly, this story, it didn't need to to be said like visually, you could give a little even just non verbal body language to show he's perplexed by what he's just encountered. And you don't need to say, I wonder what this is. I wonder what trouble I've gotten myself into here, and I'm doing it with a silly, you know, Family Guy esque voice. And you know, the voice performances in this were good, but it's just those were lines that were not needed that it the visual could have carried that. So that's just me, personally. Music wise, most of it worked. I disliked the pop rock song that was used at the beginning and then briefly at the tail end and the credits and stuff. I don't know why. It may just be, I just don't like that pop, new metal sound. I feel like it's kind of shallow. But I think maybe the main reason that it was abrasive is I felt like, okay, is this an attempt to give that grounding that I talked about was missing in terms of where and when is situated, is use of that song supposed to identify an era, and it doesn't do so because that that style of music, that style of music, emerged at a time when music was like, Where are we now? What are we doing? There is no real identity to it. It's like this mishmash. So that was just me. Me personally, there's some people in the comments that really appreciated that song or that artist, yeah. So there's an audience that it appeals to, and I get it, but I just felt like, I don't know what I would have chosen, but it just that's that that wasn't real effective for me. I think the biggest area that I think that this suffered from, and I'm not trying to pile on, is the sound design. The actual sound effects used are anywhere from good to absolutely wonderful, like the thunder and the certain choices of sounds that were used are great. It's a really good library somebody had here. I think there's not, I don't think there's any homemade Foley going on here. This is all stuff from a library, and it's a very, very high quality library, mixed very, not very well. There's no reverb whatsoever. And that means that, okay, outside, that doesn't matter. When he's walking through the forest, that doesn't matter. But when he goes inside, everything from the the radiation meter sound to his talking on the radio to footsteps to everything should you should get a sense of that space, that he's in, that hallway, that hallway has a character of sound, and there's nothing there's it's completely dry, and that just jarred me out. Now that's going to jar me out more than the average viewer, because I'm a sound person. But for the even for the viewer who doesn't think about the technical side of how sound is done, that's going to make it seem less immersive, even when they don't know why. So it's problem. So yeah, and doing that's not difficult, is what's what's frustrating to me about it. It sounds like from the credits that he did all the sound in DaVinci Resolve. Davinci Resolve isn't my sound editor of choice, but it is completely capable of multi track and of applying a reverb across different things. You can bring in any kind of different reverbs. It needed something there to give a sense of that space. And then the actual mix itself. The mixing levels just didn't quite didn't quite work. And I think the one that kept bugging me was that that static sound that he kept using for the radio, it was very clearly that that was on one channel, and then the actual voiceover was coming through on another channel, and there was no attempt to make those sound like they were coming from the same sound source. And that's a matter of EQ, and, you know, compressing things together a little bit, or whatever it just, again, it just kind of leaped out as just that just doesn't sound very realistic. And the fact that the you. So what is that meter called? The radiation meter, right? Geiger counter. Yeah, the Geiger counter, the fact that that was always at the same level, always right in the front of the mix, you're right. Tracy, when you when you mentioned it, you called it perfectly. We said, can't really tell where that's coming from. We had to assume that, because the sound wasn't telling us that, and the sound could have told us that easily, you know, like, if it's something in his head, then you mix it a certain way for that. But that's unlikely. It's more likely that it's something attached to his suit. We didn't see him carrying a device for it, so it's something attached to his suit. But if he was in a hallway and that thing was going off, you'd hear it bouncing off the walls a little bit, you know, and then we would know. So anyway, I think all of that, all of the sound stuff, really just comes down to something that we've seen in tons of films before, which is, there are certain things that people are strong in, and there's and you can't be great at everything. And this is, this is one where I wish he'd someone at some point, I think, made the decision, I can handle the sound. I don't do that, but I can handle the sound, no problem. And it's, it's unfortunate that he didn't have, he or she didn't have a person that has done a little bit more of that before, that has some skills with that, that they could bring in and involve in this. But I recognize that's not always easy to find, you know? It's not always easy. So, anyway, so I guess I, I guess I didn't really like it, but it is a great pick. It's, it's a good pick, you know? It is, this is, this is an example of what's being made. Yeah, you know, it is what's being made right now, and it does it. I think, like both of you have kind of said, it makes me yearn for when somebody's going to go into Unreal and kind of break it out of this mold, yep, because I think that's completely possible. I don't think, I don't think these shortcomings have anything to do with the tool set. I do agree. Maybe it'll be me someday. Who knows?

Tracy Harwood 32:07
I really, I really do agree. But before I sort of say my last thought on I said my thoughts, yeah, go for it.

Damien Valentine 32:17
So first of all, in our next week's episode, I'm going to be talking about an unreal film I saw.

Ricky Grove 32:26
Yeah, great.

Damien Valentine 32:27
That does not use this. It breaks the mold of what we've been seeing. Oh, good. But you're gonna have to the listeners are gonna have to tune in next week to hear me say that. So I'm not gonna say anything else about that, Phil, that Stranger Things, vibe you were talking about. I had the same thing watching it, and it was that, and then the pyramid being reversed. It brought me, like, the upside down. Because they do that whole when they call it the upside down, they actually and they showing both at the same time. It is upside down and it's the same location just really devastated. So, yeah, that came to mind. But Tracy, I have a question for you about this film. For someone who doesn't like horror films, you do seem to pick a lot of spooky thanks.

Tracy Harwood 33:11
So why is that? Sometimes I think the the way that surreal and uncanny things are dealt with seem to reveal some of the more creative ideas. And I'm fascinated by the creative ideas, you know, I whether or not they kind of completely work, but it's the creativity that goes into it that I'm I'm kind of curious by. And I think if it's just sort of, you know, a sweet, nicey, nicey sort of story, then it's, does that really? Does that demonstrate creative thinking? Perhaps not. I think, when you're when you're in the realms of fantasy, and, you know, things that make you, you know, feel creeped out and what have you, I think, some sometimes with, I mean, I don't like jump scares. I don't like lots of blood and gore unnecessarily. I'm not very fond of, you know, nasty murder things and what have you.

Ricky Grove 34:16
Well, great. Horror doesn't

Phil Rice 34:18
do any of that. No, just gonna say that's not horror, yeah,

Tracy Harwood 34:21
yes, but things that are a little bit unusual in the way that they reveal themselves, I find, I find them quite intriguing.

Phil Rice 34:30
So it's a different color palette they're painting with, isn't

Tracy Harwood 34:33
it? It is. And I think machine, some of the more creative machine, and that that we've seen is definitely in that mold, and it pushes people to think a little bit differently. I think

Damien Valentine 34:47
that's why I agree. I had to ask that, because you do seem to pick them a

Tracy Harwood 34:52
lot. Yeah, do I? It's not deliberate, sort of, Oh, let's see what horrible stuff I find. That's not I. That's not really, that isn't my thinking pattern with it. It's just, oh, that was intriguing. Yeah.

Damien Valentine 35:06
Okay, well, so we've commented about the soldier guy, he has the gas mask on, and we've seen a lot of films where they do that. And I think this kind of style of Unreal film, and it's going for that photo realistic, almost hard to tell if it's animated or live action, because you could do this live action, and it probably wouldn't look that different by having the the character's face covered. It makes that more believable, because unreal is good. But if you want a face, you can tell it's animated, unless you get absolutely spot on. You have to have a really detailed character model. And even a tiny mistake with the animation can really pull you out of, oh, that's not real. So it kind of sells the realism to it, which is probably another reason why this kind of character is so popular and so well used. But yeah, the environment, it looks really good. Like I said, it could be a live action room if we didn't know better. The pyramid. I thought, I don't know if it was really simple, like, if anything, but to me, it was to me, it was the he touched it, and then it's reset, and he's in the other side, and then he found it and he touched it again. And the implication is he's back to where he was to start with. But it's back at the beginning again. He's just doing this loop. So every time he touches it, it just resets. But in a different world, I don't know if that's the real thing or not. It's kind of vague, which I guess is the point,

Phil Rice 36:48
vague is a good word, yeah, yeah.

Damien Valentine 36:53
But it didn't leave this. Sometimes you can watch a film that's ambiguous or vague, and it leaves you you're thinking about it an hour or two later, trying to work out what did it mean, and what happens next and all of that stuff. And I didn't find myself thinking about this film later on. So that's about all I've got to say about it's very tech from a technical spectrum is very impressive, especially individuals. But this story didn't make me feel like I need to, you know, I want to know more about what's going on here, even if I have to work it out myself. Well, put,

Tracy Harwood 37:35
yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, thank you very much for sharing those thoughts. I knew you'd have lots to say about it. I knew that it wasn't going to be something that would wow you. I have to say, unreal just has not or the unreal creator community just has not developed in a way that I thought it would over the last couple of years. And I I really can't put my finger on why that is the case, because, you know, it's certainly the one of the most outstanding tool sets. It's got lots and lots of potential. It's got lots of things that you can add into the pipeline to make it interesting. I mean, I've seen it used for more interesting, immersive experiences than I have for original storytelling. So you know, my, my, my conclusion here is, it's a great one to finish with, because there surely has to be more to come with this engine and tool set. But, you know, it's just not developed this year in the way that I was expecting it would. And you know, what we've picked up on is far more creative stuff in a whole bunch of other engines through the course of the year. But, but, you know, that said, I think people are using the tools to test out new ideas to, you know, irrespective of what their their skill set actually is. And I think, you know, I think this particular creator definitely is testing both a set of ideas as well as the tool set, but lots more to do. I think, I'm sure a benefit from the comments that you've made.

Damien Valentine 39:29
So I would say to any of our listeners who are either thinking about using our unreal or are using Unreal for your project, now look at what you've done, and look at some of these other projects and think, what can you do differently to make it not look like some of these other unreal things? Maybe you're so far into your projects and make any huge changes, but just even if something small or different, just a little different, just to play around with it, and then maybe your next project, you could expand on that. And. And just keep going see what you can do to push unreal in ways that other people haven't used yet.

Ricky Grove 40:08
Good advice, yeah,

Phil Rice 40:11
alright, well, that is our coverage of Tracy's film for this this month. If you have any thoughts or comments for us, feel free to leave them in the comments wherever you've watched this, or drop us an email at talk@completelymachima.com my name is Phil rice, on behalf of my co hosts, Tracy Ricky and Damian, we will see you next time. See ya.

Speaker 2 40:31
Bye, bye, bye.