Ricky Grove 01:00
machinima freaks. This is Ricky Grove, and now for something completely machinima podcast. We're here with my pals, Phil rice and Damian Valentine. Tracy is off doing research on a trip to Mars. She's hoping maybe by 2030 to have us do a podcast on Mars. So good luck, Tracy. We'll see you very soon. Okay, on this episode, Phil is going to explain his choice for machinima of the week. Phil, take it

Phil Rice 01:32
away. So you're saying, I have some explaining to do, is what you're saying. You got explaining to do. Explaining to do. Okay? So, yeah, this is a, this is a, I feel weird with this choice, because I don't particularly like the content. Now, I don't mean that as an insult. It's just It doesn't the writing, the story and such. It does not resonate with me at all. So why would I pick this? Well, it's really very much about form and the way that this film was made. So we've reviewed this is a Minecraft film, or at least it uses a Minecraft esthetic. It's called Kid Flash by a group that call themselves valor studios. And the basic story that's going on is, it's, it's kind of, what would you compare this to? This is, it's, it's a, it's kind of a Smallville kind of story, you know, it's high school age drama slash comedy, you know, like Saved by the Bell. That's probably dating me to even mention that I know what that is, but that, you know, it's that type of vibe mixed with a superhero story as well. So it's kind of a sad story of some kind, which I have not been able to to uncover all the details about this, but based on some some comments and some research that I did, this group, valor Studios was helmed by a guy by the name of, I think it's Mark Collins, let me make sure I get this right. Malcolm Malcolm Collins, from the best that I can tell, Malcolm was, was the founder of Valor studios and a young man, and apparently, has has passed away and very untimely. Oh, and so, yeah, so and the rest of the team. It was before he passed away, before this film was was completed. But I, I get the feeling that he was involved deeply in the formation of it, and probably in some of the production of it as well. And so his friends, his fellow collaborators, worked together to to finish the project, and I think they may intend to continue it. This film only came out this June, so just a few months ago. And from the look of it, it there's work involved. So it will be a while for our next episode, if there is one, because there's a lot of Polish, a lot of work that goes on in this Yeah, the biggest question that I had, and what drew me to this film in the first place, was I was researching for a potential Minecraft themed project that I was going to take on and it my project had been shelved because they're just I couldn't find a tool set that made it practical for me to do it. There's really not any inherent, inherently machinima friendly ness to Minecraft, like at all like it's just, man, it's just not built for that. So the and if you have ever surveyed, let's say pre 2020, machinima made with Minecraft, you will, you will see evidence of that, ample evidence of that, that it's not made for that. So it's very limited into what can be done, and various people have tried through mods to convey camera controls and things like that, to enable the making of machinima. But the challenge with Minecraft is every time they're updating the software, like a major version upgrade, or incremental version upgrade, you know, 1.19 to 1.2 to 1.21 minimum, once a year, and whenever one of those updates comes out, right job edition, all mods, pretty much all mods, are broken. That's very unfortunate, and got to be frustrating for a mod developer. So you'll find littered in the past, different mods that have attempted to do. There was one that actually looked like it was trying to do what key grip two did with quake two, to be able to actually record actions and then replay them and edit them, right? And but, but it's that's, like nine Minecraft versions into the past that that worked. And meanwhile, Minecraft has continued to add additional visual elements, and what they call mobs, which are the non player character, animals or monsters or whatever, and additional textures for the blocks to make it prettier. So if you want to have that look, you don't want to go back and use Minecraft one point 12. So it's a it creates a real conundrum for anyone wanting to make a film. So that was the that was the landscape of Minecraft machinima. When I initially investigated it, I decided to go back and just give it another look, because the only other option that I had was either to try to import Minecraft models into iClone, believe it or not, and make them work in there. That was a bust. It's just probably, it's not really so much I clones. Problem as it is. It's beyond my skill set. There's nothing ready to go with that, and it's more work than the project would make it worthwhile. So I thought, let's go back and look and see if anything's changed in the world of Minecraft. And what do you know? There's been a couple different more recent mods. One's called the Minecraft blockbuster mod. That one then got broken by an update, but someone picked that up and is actively and currently maintaining a mod called BBs, which I'm not certain what BBs stands for for them, but it has something to do with broadcast system. But it's for Minecraft. It's minecraft mod, and it enables the recording and camera scripting and things like that, the features that would make machinima plausible. And while looking into that tool, that tool had a list of videos he had the author of the tool had compiled a playlist of these are videos that I know make use of this mod, and one of those was the trailer for this film that we're looking at, huh? So I assume that the Minecraft BBs mod was involved in the production of this, which means that, and from some of the movements of characters and things, some of them, it looks like exactly what it would look like if it was done in Minecraft. Now, what makes me question it? Oh, and by the way, this BBs mod has like a particle system and, oh, it's quite, quite advanced, so I could almost account for everything in here as this being made completely in Minecraft, except one thing, the visual fidelity is just unbelievably good. Like, yeah, it's hard to imagine. I guess maybe they could have implemented shaders, but this looks like something that someone would make in Blender using Minecraft assets, and we've seen that before. This looks just like that, but because of that thread that I followed, I feel like it's maybe made with VBS. So I reached out to the valor studios through their YouTube page. I only did so a few days ago, unfortunately, I didn't really give them much time to respond, especially if they're Gen Z, yeah, you got a bit of a wait timer on how often they're going to check their email. It's not quite like, like people from our generation. So I didn't get a response yet to clarify, because I told them, hey, we're reviewing this this weekend. Can you you know. Know, do me a solid let me know what was involved, because the credits, from what I could tell, don't really make it entirely clear, and the description of the video doesn't really talk about the tool sets used. So I don't know, but I do think at least some of the choreography of this video was done in Minecraft, and that's new for it to be this sophisticated, because these, you know, set aside the content again. It's not really content that resonates with me. It's not if this were a TV show, it's not the kind of TV show that I would queue up to watch. But the craft is impressive, especially given Minecraft limitations. The limitations, the the quantity of cast that's involved on screen, and I don't think it was done with compositing. I think it's either in blender or it's within Minecraft. These are are player controlled characters, from what I can tell. So,

Phil Rice 11:03
because part of what the BBS mod also gives you is the ability to it imbues a skeleton upon the various characters in Minecraft, and you can pose them. And it's like a Motion layer editor, just like Damian, yeah. It's got that within your all of it, key, frameable, every single aspect, including some like some features that you would only find in cartoon animator, you know, stretch and squish and things like that. There's all kinds of it's super, super powerful for a wow, for a free mod. So that that, more than anything, was what drew me to it. And then on top of that, the the craft of the editing, especially the video editing, is terrific. Was of enough quality that it made it where, even though the content wasn't something that grabbed me, the craft is really admirable. And considering that I'm, I don't know exactly what age the creators of this are, but they're young, and that there's a, there's a maturity to the shot selection and the sequencing. There's a lot of action in this, and they, they did it very well. So yeah, it's, it's, it's impressive in that regard. And it's, it's encouraging for anyone who would be interested in good Minecraft machinima. It sure seems like that that is becoming possible. So what was you guys take on this? Well,

Phil Rice 12:37
I think it's more so about the target audience. You know? I mean, the I think it's a combination of the enthusiasm from having played it for years that the filmmakers have with the with the platform, so that's who they're looking to make it for. It's kind of an old school approach that you know, much of the Halo machinima, which we all love so much, right, yeah, but much of that was really only ever intended to appeal to and make sense to fellow players of Halo. Same is true for World of Warcraft, yeah, yeah, very few. And the funny thing is, is the few films that do transcend that, that take the platform somewhere else and make it where it's just, you know, Tobias Lundmark and film records like that would make something that's just, wow. This is just a riveting fantasy tale. You know, those are the exception. The norm is in jokes and it's it's P for other people on the Warcraft movies.com website, right play World of Warcraft, who live and breathe it. So I think to some degree, Minecraft has has a culture around it of people who play it and love the esthetic and identify with with with those limitations of the esthetic. They just identify with it the way that a character bends. You know, it's so I think it really is about that it was made within that, because that's a world that they've become endeared with. Now, was there some, some demonstration of skill for its own sake here, yeah, I think so. I think so.

Ricky Grove 12:37
Yeah, I agree you're absolutely right, man. I think that the spirit of early machinima, a community was revolved around game focused stories that the players who played that game wanted to tell stories using those characters, and that it might not necessarily if you took it out of context and gave it to somebody who just enjoys watching movies and animation, might not appreciate it as much as somebody who is in the community that, yeah, I see that. Yeah, there's

Ricky Grove 12:37
I had a similar reaction to you to the film, I really liked the form and the technique that they used. It was very professional. It was clean, it was sharp. It had great rhythm. Came to a climax. The content, yeah, it tends to be sort of Saturday morning, 12 to, you know, 10 to 14 year olds kind of stuff, and that's fine, you know, there's a great audience for that, and I'm glad they made it. But for folks who want a little more substance to their story, less generic quality, it, me, it leaves a lot to be desired, you know, but I still think it's very worth watching. And since it's short, it's not going to be tedious to you. And I like all the background that you provided for Minecraft. I've often wondered what machinima could be made with Minecraft, and it gives me the idea that perhaps at some point we should all come to get come up with a top 10 platforms for creating machinima and discuss them. It might be an interesting topic for the great idea, yeah, from the very best to the least able, not, not in terms of the best, but the most helpful, the most effective, yeah, the most capable, yeah, most capable. That's it. But my, my key question for this film, while I was watching it and I enjoyed it, it was fun, was what difference does making it in Minecraft have to the story and the action, because I kept thinking, Boy, this would be a more interesting film if it was made with more realistic characters. It's almost as if doing it in Minecraft is a way to show show off your ability and your skills and also your love of the game, as opposed to, we want this story to be really exciting, and we want you to believe the characters, because oftentimes it's hard to believe those blocky little characters. You know, you can't really invest anything into them, because they're so primitive. Do, I don't know. What do you think of that? Phil,

Phil Rice 14:25
a double challenge there. I think that was maybe more so a problem for early machinima. One is, even if there's, there's people who made, there's a there's a series that was made in or a feature film that was made, it's Ben Grussi's, his favorite film, I think, called the Seal of Nahara. Oh, yeah. It's like a four hour film, and technically, it was made to promote a mod they that the author was working on. But it's a story that really isn't it's not rooted in what little flimsy story there was to quake two. It's not rooted in that at all. It's it technically, is standalone. I think Devil's Covenant is another example that comes to mind, made by Clan Phantasm. But it leaned on it, even if you took that out and says, Well, hey, no one. Someone doesn't have to know anything about the world of Quake to get this film. Well, then there's the visual esthetic part of it that someone from the outside, it's the old, classic problem that we've always dealt with, right? Which is someone from the outside would look at it and go, Why do things look that way? Why did they move that way? That's a whole other set of questions that someone within the audience never asks. Yeah, yeah. They never ask, How come everyone's carrying an ax in Quake one? Yeah, because everyone knows from, you know, from the first time you fire up the game, you know that. So, yeah, it's a double challenge for those

Ricky Grove 18:53
and I think it's partially due to the fact that most general audiences have been groomed on Disney and Pixar, and their notion of animation esthetics is built on that. So when they see something that doesn't have that high quality, they go, Oh, well, this isn't very good. This. This can't be very good. Whereas people in the community, as you say, just discard that whole idea, and they're excited because, wow, they're making some story inside of the game that I love. Yeah, that's a good point.

Damien Valentine 19:28
Yeah. The other part of it is, these are characters from DC Comics, so you've got that audience who would be interested in these characters as well. So my knowledge of Kid Flash comes from watching the flash TV show that ended about five years ago. Obviously, it was about the main flash character, and not Kid Flash, but Kid Flash was in it. Sometimes I'm going to say it's one of those shows that ran on far too long. The main reason I stuck with it as long as I did just because. They had other shows running alongside it, and they're so interconnected that if you don't watch one, when those characters show up in pursuit of some someone who did something in their show, you have no idea what's happening. Yeah. Um, anyway, so this is better, this fan made, Kid Flash. The cinema is better than the Flash was it started off well, the main show started off really good. It just went downhill. I enjoyed this a lot more, but knowing the characters from that show really helped me enjoy this more as well. So I thought, Oh, I know who the Kid Flash is, and I know that's his sister and and so on. And they know that person knows his secret identity, but they're being secret about it, because I know that's know that's part of the law of it. Of course, I did have a bit of I was trying to get how bad that show got out of my mind so I could enjoy this as well, because I don't want to watch any more flash. I'm glad I did, because this was so good, like the writing was better than the men's show, but not just that. It's the technical stuff that Phil's and Ricky have already discussed, yeah, so well made, yeah. I didn't think it was made with Minecraft and some mod tools. I thought this was another blender kind of project.

Phil Rice 21:14
And caveat, it may be, but Okay, again, that, that the thread that I ended up pulling, you know, that unraveled that sweater was, was that it seems to have some connection with this mod that's very capable and very interesting. So, yeah,

Damien Valentine 21:28
well, whichever if they use the mod, if they use Blender, either way, this is still really well done, yeah, and, you know, I've really enjoyed it, and it's nice to see that kind of attention to detail and getting just the world to come alive, and the effects, like when he runs and he's got the stream of life, yeah, that was nice. Yeah, things like that. I don't know how much effort that took, but I imagine it wasn't, was not an easy thing, yeah? So, you know, I can appreciate, you know, the level of work that goes into this, even if the Flash isn't necessarily my favorite DC character, but yeah, that doesn't matter.

Ricky Grove 22:07
Yeah, I know what you mean. I think part of the thing of us as critics is that we all have made machinima films, and we all enjoy them, so we tend to admire people who are create some sort of technical sophistication in their work, more than, say, a general audience might, and that was what I enjoyed most about this film, its sense of fun, too. Good. Machinima, always, even the tragedies and the dark stories the zombie film that you chose last couple of weeks ago. Phil, that really great one that had a sense of fun to it, even though it wasn't a comedy, you know. And I really, really appreciated that. And that's what I appreciated about this film.

Phil Rice 22:58
You can tell, you can tell when the filmmakers loved the film. Yeah, a film shows when it has been loved. And this, you know, like the content or not, this film was clearly loved by its makers, because, yeah, those details. A lot of attention involved there. We've all seen what it looks like when you don't pay attention to details. Yeah, and this is not that,

Damien Valentine 23:27
yeah. It's not just the Minecraft details. It's bringing the DC stuff that fans of those comics and the TV show in the films are going to know if they're missing or incorrect. So they know that stuff really well, and they actually spent a long time figuring out how to get those things in that are important to DC fans and get them getting them right. Yep,

Ricky Grove 23:49
absolutely good choice. Phil really enjoyed it. It was interesting. Well, that's our show for you today. I'm sorry Tracy couldn't be with us. We send our regards to her in Mars. Best of luck to her. That's a rugged environment to live in, so good luck. Tracy. We'll have a link to this kid flash on our show notes, and any other links like say to the mods and stuff like that on our show notes at completely machinima.com if you have any comments, please send us any thoughts or ideas at talk at completely machinima.com that's our show for you today. I'm Ricky. We're looking at Phil and Damian and Tracy will be with us soon. All right, we'll see you next time bye bye, bye bye.