Phil Rice 00:50
Hello and welcome to And Now For Something Completely Machinima, the podcast about machinima and virtual production and real time filmmaking and other related technologies. So this week we are talking about a pair of music videos, one that I picked and one that Tracy picked. And oh, I guess I should introduce you my name is Phil, Tracy Harwood and Damien Valentine. And Ricky is stuck in the La Brea Tar Pits, but he will get free soon and be back with us in our next episode. So two music videos, I'm going to start I have picked one that's not my it's not really my usual type of pick. There's no Sims getting abused or goofy comedy or whatever. This one is called that basically the most unfunny title in the history of, of short films Children of Pain. And it is a music video. The reason that my attention was called to it initially was because our friend of all of us here at the show, Tom Jantol, was in involved in the animation and production of this music video. So what am I going to do not watch the film that Tom was part of? So I dove into it. It's, it's interesting, because there were other people other fingers in the pie, so to speak. So I'm not sure that I could definitively tell you exactly. You know, which parts Tom touched in which he didn't but, but there's a sense of his flavour in this, I don't even know if I know how to how to define what his flavour is, I think I'm going to cheat and just say it's for me, it's I know it when I see it. And that is true here. But there's a there's kind of elements of mixing 2d and 3d elements in a creative way, which Tom is just a master of. And then I happen to know that the subject matter of this video, which is the pain of war, that that is a subject that Tom knows more about than he wants to and is dear to his heart. And is probably if I had to guess, probably part of the attraction to this project for him. Because this is to Tom knows war, like I said, and I'll just I'll leave it at that. So this this song, and the video essentially is a frankly, painful look at the impact of war generally, and also referencing a specific conflict on the innocents, on children. And the the, the conflict that that inspired this song and also the video is the the ISRAEL PALESTINE conflict. And I think it was frankly brave of all the artists involved with this to even take on that topic because it's, it's a sensitive one. And, boy, there's strong feelings on on different sides of that. So it's, it's hard. It's a hard subject to engage with, without some inherent risks of really upsetting people. And I think the way that they solved that now I'm curious to see if you guys agree at all But I think the way that they solved that challenge is if there's anything that you can focus on in a war that you would think everyone can agree with, it's that children shouldn't be paying the price. And, and way too often do. You know, I think that's true on small scale. If a husband and a wife are disagreeing the child shouldn't pay the price. And I think it's true on the global scale as well, that you know, grownups have their stupid conflicts, and fire their stupid weapons. And children don't have anything to do with that and shouldn't, but they get caught up in it. That's, that's, that's the, that's the uplifting message of this video. It's not intended to be uplifting. It's, it's hard. It's painful. The song lyric, for my taste is a little bit on the nose. But, you know, that's just a stylistic choice. That's, that's, you know, maybe not my favourite. But the video is beautiful. The song is a relatable and admirable sentiment about war about protecting children. And it's artistically it's, I always hesitate to use the word beautiful when when when it's dark subject matter like this. But there's a beauty in this, even though it's this is a lament, this song is a it's a crying out, I think. And I feel like that. I suspect that that that more than just Tom of the people involved in this video have been touched by this, the subject matter of this in a personal way. And it's not just they're reacting to something that they saw on the news, or saw people tweeting about or something that if they're at all, like, Tom, they've lived in an area where they seen and what it can do. And so anyway, it's it's a painfully beautiful piece of work. And I'm curious what, what you guys thought of it? Well,

Damien Valentine 07:28
I wasn't sure which war had despite it, because there's two currently happening get a lot of attention in the in the news. So thank you for clearing that up for me.

Phil Rice 07:40
And may I just say to I feel like that's a credit to the film. Yeah.

Damien Valentine 07:47
You know, yeah, that's kind of what it

Phil Rice 07:48
does not make that the most important thing about this film. Yeah, I think that's a credit to it. I think it's message can resonate further because of that. So yeah, go ahead. Yeah, it's

Damien Valentine 08:00
gonna apply to a lot of conflicts that happen around the world, especially those two right now. But you're right, it doesn't specifically identify who is fighting. It's not about that. It's about the children. And you're right. This particular war is a very sensitive one. And there are people on both sides who have very strong opinions. And I think what this film does is it doesn't say, that's the right side, that's the wrong side. It's not about them. It's basically it's both sides are wrong. It's the children who are suffering because the adults can't figure it out. And I think that's a very important message. And this film is not an easy film to watch. No, and it's not meant to be, but it is worth watching, because it is so well crafted. And I can understand why Tom Jantol, and the other people who worked on it would be thinking about the current conflicts happening, and it's bringing back memories that maybe they don't necessarily want to relive. But they want to highlight, this is something that people aren't necessarily thinking about. When they're talking about which side is right. Yeah, this, the film that came to mind was the French democracy. And it's a very different film from this. But that's another film that took a real world political situation where lots of people were suffering, and that they expressed the creator that expressed his feelings for it. And this is something that is taking real world inspiration. Read nothing that's happening in the world. And they've been inspired to, to make this film to share their feelings about it, and try and educate this Children are caught in the middle of this conflict, and it's gonna happen in any conflict. And they're the ones that are paying the price that you said they shouldn't have to pay. I don't know what else to say about because it's a very powerful piece of film that I'm still processing it. So I don't necessarily have the words it's

Phil Rice 10:20
hard to bloviate about a film like this. Yeah, cuz it it hits you does?

Tracy Harwood 10:27
Well, you know from from, I mean, I completely agree with you, but I do a little bit more digging into it in terms of their creators and what have you. It's to me this is actually a perfect example of what Tom always used to talk about when he referred to animation A N Y M A T I O N, any content content from any source composited together to create a compelling story. This epitomises that he's got content, that real life footage, that's 2d animation, that's traditional, you know, 3d real time, machinima type stuff. And, and he's brilliantly pulled all that mishmash of stuff into, you know, as a kind of a montage, you know, approach to storytelling. He's achieved that in this. And that's, that's a, you know, I've not seen it done quite as well, I've not seen him do it quite as well, as he has done with this particular one.

Phil Rice 11:28
Kind of at a peak, isn't he? He's, he's, he's really, yeah, he's getting even better. He was already.

Tracy Harwood 11:35
He definitely was. But yeah, always talked about mixing 2d, and 3d. And we've seen him do that a little bit. But this has got even more different types of footage in it. It's astonishing. And, and it's, it's, like I said, it's animation. You know, it's not the first time that Tom's worked with a professional musician, either. I don't know if you actually recall this. But a little while back, we talked about another film that he made. Also in reference to child, you know, children, childhood and all that kind of stuff. Childhood memories might be, which was called Lions Feet, I'll share the link back to that one, so that you can kind of see, there might even be that he's kind of pulled in some of the content that he created at that time for that film, which was probably created for something else that he was doing also in this one, because there's definitely some kind of similar aesthetic in what we're looking at. To be honest, I think if I did not see Tom's name on this kind of what's really interesting, you said the same thing, Phil, even if Tom's name wasn't on it, this would be Tom's work for me. 100%, even though it doesn't have quite the aesthetic that actually runs through most of his work, which is uniquely Tom. And that's that kind of Clockwork reference that you know, he uses you remember all the little things ticking away and whatnot, you if you saw that you would know instantly Oh, yeah, that's the Tom Jantol. But somehow this is also a Tom Jantol. And I, I couldn't quite put my finger on why I thought that and and it's really interesting that you said exactly really hard to identify, isn't it? Yeah, it is. But it's there. It's definitely there. You can kind of see it. But then taking a look at the work of the musician. I think you've got other kinds of forces coming in here. And I've not really seen Tom work quite so closely as it's likely that he has done with the other two in the mix here. The musician is he's Boston US based guy called Vincere Sylph. He wrote the lyrics and the music after the events that took place on the seventh of October last year. It you know, he said it was written for the many innocent children whose lives had been tragically impacted by those terrible events that day and, and that it is also dedicated to all the innocent children affected by wars throughout the world. So he never intended it to be pinpointed by a single event, which I think is I think that comes through the video as well as you as he both sort of said. He's actually a producer and apparently has a background as a painter and a graphic designer too. And his bio also states that he grew up in a Greek-Turkish Middle Eastern neighbourhood, which gave him a taste of Orthodox and Byzantines chant and ancient music. And actually, when I was listening to that music, you know, having just come back from Istanbul, you can actually hear the Middle Eastern notes. Yes, in the piece really, really well. And that Absolutely. That is so Greek Turkish in it. So it's approach, you can definitely make sense of that. But super interestingly, he identifies the genre in which he's created this word as dark future pop, industrial, ethnic, atmospheric and cinematic. Wow. Never heard of that before. All those things? Well, can't get over that. But that is actually, you know, the musical. You know, that's the musical version of Tom's ouvre, isn't it? Kind of conceptually, montage-like approach. And I think, therefore, what you've got is a great mix between the music and the image because it's, that's what it is brocolage on both sides. Now, in terms of the video animation, you've also got this other creator lady called Tanya, I think you pronounce it. Subetic. Super Touch. Working with with Tom. Now Tanya, is she's a Serbian artist, and obviously, Tom's Croatian. So there's a little bit of them different, Sarah would have said, both of these guys are creating animation, freelance working together. As I said, it's the first time I've seen Tom do a creative project with someone else. Actually, normally, I think he does them on his own normally. Now, Tanya specialises in visual storytelling and actually, according to her YouTube channel, has been experimenting with generate generative AI for a while too, which is interesting, because there's also elements that I can see in that video, that are generative AI, some of the movement is definitely generating either this cat, so it's runway type thing that's being used in there. And that's clearly, I think, a Tanja aspect to it. Not that I want to unpick it, but you know, I'm just sort of where it's all come from. So you've got in there, you know, real life, 3d, 2d, and AI, all pasted together, which is astonishing. Now, you know, clearly, there's a lot of reference to war and death, and, and, you know, to children, losing their homes, their family, their friends, their familiar life patterns, in these kinds of terrible waves of, of a bombing, that they kind of witness from whatever remains of their lives, and it's littered with symbols, symbols that go far beyond the current conflicts I thought, which are to do with, you know, you've got the red poppy in there, you've got Toy Soldiers in there, and you've kind of got teddy bears, and all of those have a, you know, they have a long association with the kind of, you know, conflict representation that you're seeing in this, and it's incredibly powerful. Because of that, that whole set of references that are being made, which, you know, put it in in there, put it at a, you know, across time, really, in terms of what it what it's about, it's children, everywhere, but any time is basically what the message is through the symbolism really, incredibly emotive stuff, you know, you, you definitely get the literal sense of the meaning of what's behind it. Think actually, the animation style is highly stylized, and in some ways, it's, it's a little bit Disney, like, you know, with the big eyes, and the presentation of the, the way that the kids moving the teddy bear and all that sort of stuff. So I think we'll be at the subject matter in some kind of, you know, hold the tone, well, the fact that you have that shift between the child's eye view and the reality of destruction. I think that's, that's quite a quite a contrast in some ways. And it's, it's maybe the aspect of it that I like the lease, given, given what it's about, but if it was any more, you know, realistic or probably any different kind of aesthetic, you know, maybe, maybe you wouldn't have got the deep meaning out of it that was intended through all these symbols that are front and centre in what you see. So I think it was a really interesting pick. It was great to see Tom's name attached to this and yes, and for him to be clearly putting into practice some of the things that he's been talking about for such a long time in such a creative and meaningful way because I think that's what's, you know, this is this is a really strong example of animation for me. It's a great thing. Thank you. Yeah.

Phil Rice 20:11
Thank you. So you had a pick as well called Firefly.

Tracy Harwood 20:18
Yeah, well, well, it's a slightly different in some ways it's a little bit similar but and, but it's it's also really, I suppose quite different really they're actually thinking about it! FireFly by Esoterica. And actually that the video itself has been created by a guy called Luis Andrade in Unreal Engine and it's been made using meta human avatars and mocap technology using a concept by two of the Esoterica band members Toby and Luke Keast. Toby keast is actually the lead singer and Luke plays drums in this band. Now, esoterica is an alternative rock band it's London based, relatively small do I do what I wouldn't say it's relatively small kind of niche, but it's toured with folks like Marilyn Manson and a few others that you will have heard of. So it's, you know, it's got chops, but maybe not a global audience. In the way some of the really big bands have. It's a fusion of kind of atmospheric melodies, powerful vocals into intricate instrumentation according to their description. And, super ironically, as we're recording this, they have literally just finished the Firefly tour, which is from what I understand has gone down particularly well. Now, Andrade has commented that for this video, what they did was combined the ethereal metal sound of Esoterica's music with this kind of mystical and futuristic what they described as games cinematic visuals, the video took a year to make, and when I first sort of came across it I didn't realise they're actually doing a Firefly to fly a firefly tour which I think has largely been driven by the response to this video. The the avatar itself that the main character that you see with wires and what have you, is actually a digital version of the lead singer. I'd say I wasn't I wasn't really, you know, sort of finding all that out I wasn't really surprised how well the music and the video complemented each other. I mean, it was obviously it was going to complement each other because they were so closely related in the creative process which is somewhat unusual when you see a music video because normally you know the music guys will say Oh yeah, you sound so like like in Tom's case, I would say Tom probably came to the party with the musician having already created the music and I got the strong sense that maybe there was some co-created elements to this particular piece in the way that it was done. So I'll tell you what, yeah, okay, so so when I was watching it, the thing that I kind of remembered I don't know if you remember me sharing this film with you as well. Do you remember the Jackson Wang Cruel video? Do you remember that? You remember me sharing that with you? Last year? I think so. About a year ago. Jackson Wang, very well known singer Asian singer created this most astonishing video using Unreal Engine in a Mandalorian style site title. Oh yeah. Do you remember that? Yeah. Well, at the time that was made with you know, they were all actors or dancers performance basically and then the you know, in post production they put all the CGI effects over it with a with a background and what have you already in there. But what you've got here is the same kind of effect but this time it's been fully created in Unreal Engine. In one year. This is the development of Unreal Engine in one year. From that piece of stunning work that Jackson Wang created to this kind of creative aesthetic. Now they talk that talk about this particular video as being groundbreaking I actually thought Jackson Wang's was groundbreaking breaking last year, but this is a you know, this has moved the game on a little bit I think for music video. The description of the video itself the you know the storyline of it is quite vague. the only the only kind of real thing that I could get out of it was that I Um, you've got a young protagonist navigating a mysterious forest guided by a luminous Firefly on a quest to confront the end of level boss, a cyborg version of the lead singer. This, there appears, in my view to be some kind of reference to war, I think well, at least a kind of a post, post war futuristic setting where you've got this kind of badly injured former soldier probably sharing memories that are played out in the video as some kind of dream. So I guess that's what the game like aspect too is. I think rather interestingly, because it's a, you know, a rock band. There's some reference to drugs in this as well. You know, he got these magic mushrooms which is possibly a reference I think, to the band's identity, Esoteric, meaning cryptic, for the select few. I guess, maybe that's a reference for that. Andrade himself. Just you know, he's He's described as a as a passionate short cinematics creator, who's especially interested in cutting edge 3d computer graphics, who has a actually a film industry background as a visualisation artist. And when I looked him up, guess what? He's got credits on Transformers X Men, The Mummy Passengers, Sully, Cloverfield, 10, and Terminator Genesis in roles, such as pre-viz and post-viz, and also lead visualisation artists. So we've clearly got yet another example of a very talented creator using this kind of Unreal platform to develop his workflow. And of course, you know, he's got a show reel on Vimeo that you can see what the some of the work that he's done over the years. He's also got a YouTube channel that he calls Mastering Cinematics not like yours fill, not like yours. However, these are not really tutorials in the same vein, that quite a lot of the tutorials we see. He's basically, you know, showing some CG shorts, a few unreal techniques, and basically quite a lot of behind the scenes stuff. So he's hooking his you know, line to the creative practice, and the quality of the creative practice to demonstrate what it is, you know, to order demonstrate how he's always doing it. And I think this particular video is actually an example of the of the creative work that he primarily focuses on doing. So unlike many of those tutorial, folks, the creative stuff comes after they've done the tutorial, but whereas I think it's with this guy, it's the other way around, and you can clearly see in his video, that he's a passionate creative because this work is stunning to me. It's really absolutely amazing in in how it's, you know, the visual aesthetic of it is, is just incredible, I think. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised, you know, given its smallish band, I wouldn't be at all surprised if what we don't end up with here given who Andrade is and and given the you know what what's being showcased I wouldn't be at all surprised if this doesn't actually help spark global interest in this particular band. Much like the impact of Cruel and his video, Jackson lungs video had on demand for his book as well, which was also really interesting. So yeah, that's my little intro to it. What did you think?

Phil Rice 29:03
Ah, visually super stunning video and I admire the the craft involved. You mentioned that you suspect that the visual elements of this and the music, there was maybe some overlap in terms of Yeah, 100 of creation going on. And I think that's, it frankly, would surprise me if that wasn't the case because of how well they integrate. Probably the most noticeable place for that is the the song's musical crescendos that coincide with her eating the mushrooms, right? And there's this big up, you know, up burst of light and she levitates into the air and all that. I think I assumed that the mushrooms were at least a vague, Lewis Carroll reference

Tracy Harwood 30:00
Maybe

Phil Rice 30:00
the whole notion of that eating the mushroom that there's a transformation that happens and that this was a kind of a sense of a journey of transformation that because of the way that it the final time, I think it's the third and final time that she goes to eat, she's not able to complete that. And then sorry for spoilers I don't like spoilers aren't a big deal here. But and then it kind of goes back and she's sleeping and so this was a dream. So it's almost like there's a becoming happening, but it's, you haven't arrived yet. That that's that's what this little girl's journey kind of embodies is and and I'm not sure how the the avatar plays into that. But you know, that I feel like all of this is her. The, the, the avatar as well as the journey that really it's all about her and becoming something else. And there's something maybe inside her that she's trying to achieve or overcome or they leave it deliciously vague. I love that they leave it vague. Yeah, because we can interpret it so many different ways. So yeah, beautiful story craft, I think the the structure of the narrative as as such, is it, it's very traditional, old school music video format, when when a music video is story, and not just abstract, when it's actual story, you know, that there's these different peaks that you reach, and it's very tightly structured, you know, her outfit changes at each transformation, and just all all these just these uses of colour, and some somebody that's not accident, that's either someone who has studied the story craft of short form, particularly music, video creation, or, like studied formally, or they've just watched a lot and learned from that, because it's, it's, there's, there's some classical elements to the structure of this. And they're classical for a reason, they're very effective. You know, and frankly, there's a lot of me that having grown up on MTV, I mourn, you know, the passing of that era when, when music videos, when they were all tours, in music videos, you know, doing this kind of thing, a lot of whom went on to be very well known film directors, by the way, but they would get their start with, with doing creations just like this, which are just, just wonderful little morsels. And it was kind of a whole, it was a genre that that you know, that peaked and then kind of went away. And now, when we get a taste of it like this in the modern era, it's pretty, it's pretty special. Because it's not it's not commonplace, there's no vehicle for this other than, you know, the loud landscape of YouTube where it's easy for it to get lost. So yeah, I loved this I'm one of the effects that I found fascinating was the I don't know how else to describe it, except it almost had like, fibre optics look with some of the way that the lights would move, you know, with the glowing ends and all that that's, that's what it made me think of is fibre optic. Yeah. Almost a liquid feel to the motion. And that's so that's beyond my skill set. Like I don't even know how to do that. I know it can be done. I know that in Blender and engines like that. There are algorithms that help you achieve that. It's just not an area that I've even dabbled in. So I'm pretty fascinated by it. And it's just so well crafted the use of light in this the use of colour. The shot selection and the choice of when to cut again, all that that classical, short form music video story structure of of incorporating and also when the lead singer is singing. It's very smart to model that character after the lead singer. I'm assuming that you're correct about that because you know, there's nothing there's nothing that makes a virtual singing performance look more authentic than for it to be the actual person doing the singing, you know, I'm saying so even if it's a model version, everything about the way the throat and mouth shapes and all that work. If it's fake, even someone who doesn't know what they're looking for can spot it and it just feels inauthentic. Yeah. This felt authentic. Obviously, it's, you know, the guy actually has something below his torso in real life and all that. It's it's a fake image. But again, the that was a good choice. So yeah, I just very impressive. This is from the era of music video that I think inspired Paul Marino with the that the brain still seeing green

Tracy Harwood 35:36
still Seeing Breen. Yeah,

Phil Rice 35:38
yeah, yeah that that era of a story and cutting to the singer at certain points and stuff. I mean, that's that's what his his film all those years ago was it 15 years ago now more. That's what that emerged out of it. And frankly, that era was already dying then like, I feel like Paul being very close to be an age probably also remembers fondly on when there was some amazing little storytelling nuggets that were happening in the world of music video. And that era is gone. Now. It's completely gone. Right? I mean, there's so yeah, this this harkens back to that it's extremely well executed. So yeah, great pick Tracy. Really good.

Tracy Harwood 36:26
Yeah, so I think

Damien Valentine 36:29
I think it's pretty stunning. There were a lot of effects in there that I was starting to take, how do they do that? I noticed that maybe with Unreal rather than iClone. But there's a certain things in there that no matter what platform you're using, they're really hard to do. Not the cables coming out of the main guy. And they're flexible. As I thinking, Well, how would I do that in iClone. Its very tricky. So give me some ideas of things I'd like to try out just to see if I can kind of replicate those effects. I did really enjoy the contrast between the cybernetic machine guy and the girl in the forest with completely surrounded by nature. And whereas he's just surrounded by rocks in this environment. So many points here. Yeah, it's very dark. So you can't really see much of the surrounding, but there's nothing really there. Because they've both got that Firefly. A, he's got it at the beginning in his head. And then she's out in the forest, her lands on her hand, and it wakes her up. And that's when she starts. It takes off and she chases after it running through the forest. You know, I like things like that. But I also like that I used to feel it's open to interpretation. Someone could get copied meaning out of this and somewhere else. And I think that works nicely. Yeah, I'm kind of struggling with what to say. You haven't already said, I really enjoyed this film. I thought it was extremely well crafted. I liked the music. I liked the way that it was animated and the lip sync on the character seeing as well. That's a hard one. And lip sync for characters talking can be tricky getting it right. But when you're singing, that's even harder because the mouth moves so much differently. But it doesn't look wrong. But when it doesn't

Phil Rice 38:32
matter. Not for a moment. Yeah, yeah, it's really nicely done.

Damien Valentine 38:35
Here is slightly off. It looks wrong. But this does get to the point where you think is that the really the singer and they've put some CGI wires and stuff on him or makeup or prosthetics, but it's not because it is all unreal. But it could have been done that way. And the lipstick is that good. So yeah, this is a very impressive piece of work. And I feel like I need to watch it a couple more times to fully absorb everything that's put into it because a lot of work has been put into this.

Tracy Harwood 39:08
Yeah, I think it's another marker in the sand for Unreal. This one. Yeah. And yeah.

Damien Valentine 39:15
Excellent pick.

Phil Rice 39:17
Great. Do you think the hole through the head? Was that inspired by that recent movie from last year? That was aI themed?

Damien Valentine 39:27
The Creator?

Phil Rice 39:28
I have because I think the creator is the first time I've ever seen that. That approach to design. There's this hollow hole through the through the head of the Android.

Damien Valentine 39:36
And I know we're not really here to talk about the Creator, but that was another visually stunning film. Oh, yeah. And then a tiny budget for it as well, compared to some of the other big budget stuff that doesn't look as good as that.

Phil Rice 39:51
Yeah, yeah, that's one of my favourite films from last year. Just just great story really well told. Effects are amazing. Yeah. All right. Well, that'll, that'll wrap it up for this episode. What are your thoughts listeners? Are we are we on target? Are we off target? Let us know what you think of these films. Or if you've got suggestions for something we should consider Washington the future. Talk at completely machinima.com Or leave us a note in the comments. On behalf of my co hosts, Tracy and Damian, I'm Phil Rice. And we will see you in our next episode. Bye