Phil Rice 00:45
Hello and welcome to And Now for Something Completely Machinima, the podcast about machinima, virtual production and related technologies. So I'm here with my co hosts, Tracy Harwood, Damien Valentine and Ricky Grove and I am fellows. Hello,

Tracy Harwood 01:01
hello. No.

Phil Rice 01:03
So this week is Ricky's pick and Bonjour, Ricky to say very nice. A collection of happy French poetry called doll. Baudelaire's Fleur du Mal, I believe that's how you pronounce it the Flowers of Evil. But like Baudelaire, this is beautiful. So Ricky, why don't you tell us about it?

Ricky Grove 01:29
Sure. This is an interesting type of film that can only be found, for the most part in a virtual world like Second Life. Second Life frequently has live performances. It could be dance, it could be music. In this case, it's what's called a particle show, which I'm not entirely sure how that exactly works inside of Second Life. But Tutsy when, by the way, Tutsy NaVaRaThNA is one of the true artists of machinima. We've been following his work for good Lord 15 years now. And all of his stuff is completely original. And he is one of those directors that combines live action with machinima. He's avant guard, I guess is what you could call him. In this case, he decided to record and re edit a performance of a particle show a particle show being, I guess, particles in a 3d environment where, you know, particles would be like a star stream, or a fire stream or graphics would change and move around in camera, his own camera and then created a short film out of it. Feeling that the title should be based on the Baudelaire poems. And what's fascinating about Baudelaire, was one of the first poets to actually Harold modernism in poetry, in which he combined the sort of technique and style with very, very gritty details. So it was a unique combination. That's why he calls it Flowers of Evil. So the combination of the two things seem to be incongruent. But the way he puts them together, they're completely original. And that's what this movie is, is completely an utterly original. The music that's chosen to accompany them is a French band. I'm sure Tracy will give us all the details on that. It's a short film, it is a collection of visual elements that are layered, so that they flow into each other and expand and contract in different visual shapes, different visual colours, the music helps lends an atmosphere, changing atmosphere, sometimes of ominous pneus sometimes have sort of brightness, and sweetness to it. So the contrasts are all there like in Baudelaire. And I found myself just oddly entranced by this short film. It's not particularly original, in a sense that this kind of thing has been done before. Early modernist filmmakers in animation created many things like this combination, this abstract shapes I think, we saw this not too long ago on a film that I picked. There was an old one that had abstract shapes that were made from a game, but this one is in particularly great, because I think if you were not a fan of abstract poetry or abstract visualisations, you would like it anyway. Because it's just so pleasant, and the length is absolutely right for it. Just about the point where you don't want to see any more. That's when it stops. So I just love this film. I think it's great. I think Tutsy is a remarkable creator. I think the people that did the live performance should be praised for it. What did you guys think of it? Amazing.

Tracy Harwood 05:19
Absolutely amazing. Shall I give you my take on it? And then you guys can pick up the other? Sure. Yeah. Sounds great. All right. Okay. So like you say, Tutsy's recording of this. This is actually an installation that was supported by the Second Life Endowment for the Arts. So they, you know, they gave some Linden Dollars to create the show. And as you said, it's a scripted particle show, and the original creators were Lalie Sorbet and Chrix. And in this particular rendition of it, this the short of it, what you've got is a company accompaniment of a track, which is actually called Les Fleur de Mal by Sahale. A guy called Sahale, I think his name is. And it's from his album called Buddha Bar. Buddha 21, I believe. There's actually a full recording of the whole show on Chrix's channel, which we'll put a link to in the in the show notes as well. And it was, it was at a launch event or a main showing of the of the installation itself, which I'm guessing is where Tutsy has done his recording as well. On the 20th of January, the whole thing took place this exhibition of it. And actually, the whole show was an hour long. And there's a really interesting playlist of music to it as well, of which this is one of the pieces of music that was selected for it. So it's not the only thing that accompanies it, now I understand the installation has in fact been on a loop. So you could actually also go and visit it, I'm not sure how long it's going to be available for. But there is a map link, which I can also put on the show notes, I have to say I did go and try and find it. But at the time, it wasn't actually running. So I didn't manage to sort of get a sense of what it was doing. And as I understand it, this is an installation it's centred on a 3d set of standing stones like like a circle of standing stones and this kind of lava like fountain object, which spews out things a little bit like a kaleidoscope and all the images that you see these particles are really what I would call like an old you remember, there's old fashioned children's toys, there's Kaleidoscope things, it's very like that. To create it, I understand Lalie and Chrix have built this particle system, which they call Bloom. The installation shows some really intriguing elements which to me looked a little bit like protozoa or pre or early life forms, which are then attempting to kind of converge and then later in the in the show there appears to be more complex life forms. And eventually these kinds of humanistic representations which you do also see in Tutsy's show, Tutsy's recording of it. And then these colours that also seem to represent this sort of increasing level of complexity go from sort of single colours to multiple and then kind of almost like kaleidoscopic rainbow type colours as well. So so there's a number of ways that complexity is communicated through what this installation is doing. What you see in Tutsy's video are also the avatars of some of those who seem to have been at the show, and I think also became part of the installation during the show. Now as you said, Ricky the work's inspired by the the French poet Charles Baudelaire. They used an English translation of his most famous volume of work the Fleurs du Mal. I don't know if you know this, but when it was originally published in 1857, it was considered a scandalous work for its portrayals of decadence sex, same sex, love death.

Phil Rice 09:28
Yeah, the corruption. Yeah, I was worse, like pornographic. Yeah,

Tracy Harwood 09:33
absolutely. And the the corrupting and oppressive power of also the modern city and lost innocence. So it was basically considered by these artists to still be relevant in its commentary about modern life today, which is kind of why they selected it. In fact, that book of poems led to Baudelaire and his publisher being prosecuted for creating an offence against public morals, it was passed. Well,

Damien Valentine 10:02
they should and well banned in

Tracy Harwood 10:05
France, can you believe this for 100 years, it's only published in France in the late 1940s, although that the offending poems were actually published in Belgium, in the mid 1860s, in a book called Les Epaves or The Scraps. Now, I found a copy of the translated version of the book on Project Gutenberg's website. And I also found a website dedicated to Baudelaire's complete Fleur du Mal from our works, which I'll share to you in case you want to have a look at what was in those. And there's translations, various different translations of them on those sites as well. I think this film is is really quite a compelling snapshot of the of the installation. In the full film of the installation, you do get some of the sense of the themes in those poems, although the imagery and its various kind of colourful rhythms. You know, they're those are those things that are things that come through very strongly, I think. I think what you get in this documentary, though, Tutsy's work is the sense of the mystique and the intensity of of it, which perhaps doesn't come through so well in the full installation recording of it. Well, yeah, well, indeed. But also that's because of his choice of music to it, as well. I mean, this is a really interesting you know, a piece by Sahale. I think it's a it's a, you know, it's also called Fleurs Mal. It's, it's, it's a brilliant pairing because the video and music is so complimentary, I think in their attempts to evoke the sense of what was in the poems. And I think what you pick up is the kind of the almost Shimshon is the word shamantic, shaman and semantic spiritual anyway, that's what I mean spiritual shamanistic, that kind of thing where it draws on these kind of tribal themes from and I picked up both African and South American themes, as well as kind of electronic instruments all of which seemed to convey this kind of life force. I think the music is it's all about the music really. I didn't actually there, there's some spoken words in the music. I didn't find out what they were. Because obviously, there's, you know, they're also spoken in French, but my guess would be they're actually from one of the Baudelaire's poems. I don't know which one. Yeah,

Ricky Grove 12:42
that was my impression.

Tracy Harwood 12:43
Yeah. Now I think Tutsis work. It doesn't

Ricky Grove 12:47
make any difference, because it wasn't about the words it was about the visual.

Tracy Harwood 12:51
Exactly, exactly. But But Tutsy's film of it, I think, is something slightly different. Because I interpreted this as quite a poetic piece in itself. It gives you a sense of being some kind of voyeur of this experience. And the fact that he's captured the audience who were who were at this sort of exhibition of it, I think, is quite an interesting voyeuristic act as well. And it's interesting, because it helps you appreciate that the installation is basically attempting to connect with the audience as a kind of, you know, as they are, they're basically virtualized avatars, you know, as well, the virtualized avatars, but what's happening is this particle system is kind of continually passing over them and through them. And I think what you're, you're witnessing actually, is what I can only really describe as a sort of cosmic orgy. Which I'm sure you'll love to comment on. But that's, that's what I think this

Ricky Grove 13:59
this is last. Let's be careful here. Now,

Tracy Harwood 14:02
Indeed, indeed. So I think in that sense, too, there's this kind of subtle reminder to the core themes that run through the Second Life community, as well. And when I was looking at Chrix's work, Lalie and Chrix's work it Chrix is actually more explicit work in that regard on his channel, so you know, there's there's a subtext to this as well, I think. Overall, to me, it's, it's actually probably one of the most incredible particle installations I've seen ever created, I think, but it occurred to me that probably the best way to watch this isn't just on a 2d screen, what you really need is a VR headset on, in Second Life, actually experiencing that installation first hand. And I would imagine that having done that what you will have is a kind of, you know, you'll you'll really be able to experience the kind of the magic quality that they were trying to aim for that kind of hallucinogenic. kaleidoscope of stuff going on around you, which I think is really quite a fascinating thing to have created in the way that they they have. So I you know, all in all I thought it was it was a really great pick. It's not the same as the installation itself, evoking what the installation was about, but actually doing something else as well. So yeah, nice pick.

Phil Rice 15:37
Thank you. Good point. Yep. Yeah, you know, capturing the experience of something that's to be attended like this is tough. Just I mean, I went to see I got got the opportunity to see Pink Floyd concert in the mid 90s. In this huge arena in Nashville, and they had, of course, they're renowned for, during that tour, a lot of light shows and extraordinary visuals. And I've seen I've seen well made videos of concerts from that era. And yeah, it's, it's not the same as being there. I mean, that that kind of goes without being said so. But I think this film is beautiful. And it is it's entrancing. That was a great word that you picked for it, Ricky. It was mesmerising and that's coming from a guy who will be the first to admit that, that, you know, abstract art and how to experience it. I feel like a little kid like I have no idea what I'm doing. But I for it didn't bother me. Like I was conscious of that, because I can't help it. I'm, I'm a little insecure about that, I think. But I just enjoyed this. I enjoyed watching it. And imagining myself there. It's funny. You mentioned the VR headset, element Tracy, because that's exactly what I thought as I was watching is okay, this is something that a VR that a VR headset, that's a use case, I would be really intrigued by to experience something like this. So yeah, just just wonderful. And it's, it's hard for me to like imagine, as I set out to make a video of this, you know, one of the key things with creating a video with any sources, how do you select your shots? Well, it must have just been, I don't know, if Tutsy is of a higher artistic mindset that I I reckon Tutsy is then they probably did not approach this in a real cerebral. Oh, let's set the camera here and the most through this hair. It was just, I'm just going to feel this and do it and capture footage and who knows what the process was. But it's it's, it's fantastic. It's wonderful. And yeah, the music goes really well with it. The visuals remind me, Tracy, I was curious if this made you think of this to have the demoscene, which for those who aren't familiar with the demoscene, whenever we talk about the first machinima and we talk about Diary of a Camper and those types of things. There's always this sense of well, not exactly the first, because back in the 1980s, as early as the 1980s programmers were creating basically, stuff like this, basically a scripted triggered particle show for lack of a better term now that the image fidelity of this compared to what they could do with graphics cards back then obviously, there's no comparison. This looks like something that you would expect to have been rendered out of Blender. I mean, it's it's gorgeous and highly detailed, very crisp and well formed images and stuff. So it doesn't compare in terms of fidelity as you'd expect but as far as the theme of it and a lot of strange geometry and and with what they could do nowadays it mixed with a fluidity. And then there's these holographic images of of people and different shapes. I mean, just it's a feast. It really is a feast for the eyes and the ears. I mean, just it's so well suited. Whoever was music supervisor for the project itself for the installation. Yeah, great stuff there. Like just that that's a whole art in itself of finding music that fits with visuals or vice versa, cracking visuals, right? That's a totally unique thing that has nothing to do with narrative, or the things that we normally focus on for filmmaking. It's more of a painterly type of thing. And it's, it's just when it's x lighted by it, I'm all there are fans. That really didn't enter into this though. Like, if you're worried about well, I've never read any, you know, Fleurs du Mal, don't worry about it. You don't. You don't need that. It's not like Ricky said it's not about the words, or even about the poetry here. It's about trying to kind of capture this experience. I would say if if the installation does prove to still be live. That's worth pursuing. If you've got an avenue into Second Life. It's worth it. Because clearly, that's how this was meant to be. Perceived. Yeah. I think VR would be the ultimate. I'm not even sure to Second Life even support that. I don't even know it did

Tracy Harwood 21:04
for a while. I don't know if it does. Yeah, headset somebody

Phil Rice 21:08
that we've we've got listeners here who are Second Life machinima, members of the second life machinima community. So if you would, let us know in the comments. What, what you know about the VR aspect of our people to able to experience second life that way? If so, you know, send us links will will help spread the word on that? Because, yep. Second Life's already a very interesting platform and a lot of really artistic stuff like this going on. But something like this to experience it in VR would be would be pretty amazing. So great pick, Ricky. Just Just, just wonderful. I have watched it multiple times. You're right. The length is perfect. It's delicious. So thank you.

Damien Valentine 21:53
Yep. My experience watching this is very similar to the Phil's. So I'm not going to repeat what you just said. Because

Ricky Grove 22:03
no, go ahead. We'd like to hear exactly word for word.

Damien Valentine 22:07
Watching. There's a couple of things I am going to add to it, though. So I was actually on a bus and I was coming home. And I was reflecting on machinima. And what we see now, compared to what we used to see, you know, 10, or 15 years ago, back when we're doing the Machinima Expo and back when Machinima.com existed in the way that we preferred it to exist. But I'm not gonna do that now. And I was thinking, these are the kinds of videos that I used. As far as my when I'm looking for machinima about these don't come up very often, these kinds of videos. So I was wondering, do people still make them? And obviously they do, because we've got the new one here from Tutsy. And, you know, that's just one of the things and thinking, well, that's kind of a shame, because I feel like now a bit older, I can appreciate them more than I did, you know, back then. Because back then they're very nice to look at. But they didn't really grab me. But now I can appreciate the artistic value of them a lot more, because I understand it a lot. And then I get home. And later on that evening, I look to see what's on a list of films to watch because it's about time to see what you guys had picked. And Ricky, obviously read my mind. And I watched it straight away.

Ricky Grove 23:31
Perfect. You were in the perfect mindset.

Damien Valentine 23:33
I really was. So you know, you timed that real nicely. Ricky picking this film. Yeah, like Phil said, this is one of those films that I don't think I would know how to make it myself. Like from the technical point, I would know how to capture the footage and all of that. But I wouldn't know how to choose what I want to capture what was going to work for me because my filmmaking mind works in such a different way. Interesting, too, so I don't look at all this. I don't think you can necessarily make what I make and there's nothing wrong with that either.

Phil Rice 24:12
Probably true. Yeah.

Damien Valentine 24:14
So it's kind of interesting. What different styles could you know maybe there's a few things we can learn from each other, but not necessarily do the kind of films have been making? I like that machinima gives us filmmakers. We have different approach vastly different approaches wasted to make the film see well. This this, this is a prime example of that and I am glad filmmakers like Tutsy are still putting out content like this.

Ricky Grove 24:44
If you're a creator, you should I believe you should expose yourself to variety of things that are outside your comfort zone. If you are a person who likes to make realistic types of films that are liked The things you see, that's great. But you should see other things to give you ideas and to break up your imagination. So that when you make those realistic things, or those humorous things, or whatever it is you do, you have a wider space to be able to draw within your imagination from at least that's what I believe. And that's why films like these and why avant garde has always been so important. Obviously, in America, the big thing is realism. Realism, as always, and well made realism with predictable plots and formula plots. That's what sells tickets. So that's what people see. And that's what they try to recreate. But if you step outside of that, you'll discover a world of artists, not only filmmakers, but writers, musicians, painters, dancers, all kinds of things that are just way outside your comfort zone, expose yourself to those things. The other thing I wanted to say is apologise to Claus Dieter Schultz because his film Nine was the film that I was trying to come up with earlier. Yeah, so I'm really sorry, I don't remember it. I can only tell you I'm going to be experiencing my 69th birthday this month. So that's my excuse. But it was nine by cluster Schultz. And then the last thing I want to say is that while we were talking it flashed into my mind, a memory of something that occurred in the 60s were called happenings. Do you guys remember these? They were primarily in the theatre community. were performing street performers would suddenly start a production. It's some odd and interesting place. And it would be a happening. Oh, yeah. And every and mostly young people knew what they were in, they gather around they do an impromptu performance. Sometimes they'd be partially scripts and sometimes they wouldn't well also, the happenings bled over into rock performances, where a band would get together and they would use these visualisations behind them of fluids. There were huge round projections that had all sorts of unusual fluid things that were projected all right on the band as they were playing pink, Pink Floyd did quite a bit less in their early youth. That's what this installation reminded me of, are those happenings it was like a happening inside of Second Life, except rather than being impromptu, it was all set up and schedule and they had set it up beforehand. But there's a precedent for that. Starting in the 60s and bringing all the way to the present day, there was something very refreshing about suddenly, spontaneously, a dramatic presentation would occur, or going to see an event that was only announced the night before or that day, and having these incredible visuals. Now, of course, drugs were part of the thing that helped you appreciate the performance. In the 60s, Floyd? Yes, you don't quite have the same thing in Second Life. But still, it's quite entrancing, as we put it earlier, so those are my thoughts on that. And I'm so glad you guys liked that. I knew you would. Thanks.

Phil Rice 28:22
Yeah, one more thing that I want to mention about this film that came to mind while we were while you guys were talking is so in all of the types of machinima filmmaking there's, there's always a sense of what we would term as happy accidents, right? Especially when you're dealing with video game, you don't have full control over all the elements and something unusual will happen and you weren't production? Well, this is this is a whole other level of that when you're dealing with essentially, you know, the scripted particles. There's this element of these are mathematical equations, overlapping algorithms and equations that are playing out. And when you're coding that you don't know exactly how it's going to turn out. You may have some general idea, the more experienced you get. But there's there's a randomness to some of this movement that it's not like, you know, creating this in a platform like I clone, for example, where you just, you're, you're keyframing every little movement or whatever this is. It's something that that is beyond that there's there's again, that random mathematical element, weaved into the artistry is fascinating. And there's no other form I think, where that element is so prominent then in this type of type of thing, yeah, a lot of exploitation and a lot of other lot of randomness and a lot of Oh, wow, that works out that the way it is out to have this character walk from here to there and then punch this guy, you know. So yeah, that's that's it really we've mentioned this phrase a couple of times during this episode, but really is there's a very different skill set going on here. And, and it's one worth, at the very least learning to appreciate as Ricky mentioned. Yeah, and, and maybe even for the adventurous. It's worth dabbling in and, and seeing you know, what you can do with it yourself. So, not the creation of something like this, as well as the filming of it. And, yeah, it's such a different bird. And I just I'm, so I'm glad that you found this record. Yep. Very

Ricky Grove 30:49
different from the film we looked at last week Emesis, where everything was carefully controlled inside the game engine. It leads to a result that you experience as a different kind of entertainment than yes, when. And as long as you don't restrict yourself. As I said, you step outside your comfort zone, you can really appreciate the quality of this interesting, short film.

Phil Rice 31:15
One thing I will say about this short film Ricky is is this one this one has. It doesn't even stack up to the narrative structure of the Lion King like it really falls falls flat.

Ricky Grove 31:29
I'm very sorry. Yeah.

Phil Rice 31:33
Well, hey, thanks for joining us, everyone. What's your publicly made?

Ricky Grove 31:38
Point 1% profit of the Lion King two. Yeah, maybe less.

Phil Rice 31:44
Well, thanks for joining us. We would love to hear what you the audience. Think about this. Drop us some feedback either in the comments if you're watching us on YouTube, or in the comments of wherever you've seen this episode posted, or via email at talk at completely machinima.com Let us know just Flowers of Evil, and The Lion King who would win. So we look forward to hearing from you. And we'll see you next episode.

Ricky Grove 32:11
Thanks, Walmart.

32:18
Bye bye