Damien Valentine 00:35
Hello and welcome to another instalment of And Now For Something Completely Machinima. I'm Damien Valentine. I'm going to be joined by Tracy Harwood. Phil Rice. Hey there, Ricky. Hello

Damien Valentine 01:03
I was trying to get the show down. Right? So news and the film. Like Phil, I chose a film has Keanu Reeves in it. A little bit different context. But firstly, the news, which is kind of related. There's two pieces. One is about The Witcher 3, which is a it's a game by CD Projekt Red, they're going to release mod tools. And this is an old games. It's been reached about eight years ago, for that reason, the full month tool set for people to use. And what's the reason I wanted to bring that up, because it'd be interesting to see how what is modify that game, but also what machinima potential is going to have by using these tools, how people are going to modify it to give you know, Camera Tools and control the characters and anything else that might be useful for potential filmmakers, obviously, is an eight year old game, so it's not going to look quite as good as something like Elden Ring. But that doesn't matter. I mean, if if it's a game you really love when you've got some ideas for telling stories in that world or something similar to it, go for it, because it's interesting to see. And

Tracy Harwood 02:17
yeah, I was just gonna say, Damian, it's really super interesting to see this company just fully embracing and endorsing machinima creation through this. Because I don't know about you guys. I haven't really seen a lot of machinima created in this particular game, have you? Is that? Have we just not seen it? Or does it not exist? I don't know.

Ricky Grove 02:45
But there's been some I mean, I don't think a lot. But there's been a handful, at least a

Tracy Harwood 02:53
handful in nine years.

Ricky Grove 02:55
Yeah, you're right. That's a perspective. Right.

Tracy Harwood 02:59
I think that's really interesting though, because basically what it means is they fully appreciate the role that machinima has to play, both in keeping the interest in the game going, but possibly also how the community can also be used to generate new stories that then they can exploit. And I think I've seen a really interesting strategy from this. From this organisation. Yeah, yeah, you're right.

Damien Valentine 03:25
Yeah, I'm kind of hoping they'll do this, the same company that made Cyberpunk 2077. Exactly. I'm hoping they'll do the same for that game, which is obviously much more recent. And we've already seen some machinima films make with that. And it's one of the films that I'm going to talk about in a few minutes was also made with the game. So if they released the formula tools, and maybe give people cinematic options, that would be great, because I'd like to see more film was made with this game.

Tracy Harwood 03:54
Well, aren't they going to be releasing an Ultimate Edition?

Damien Valentine 04:01
Oh, that was the second piece of apologies. They earlier this year, there is the DLC expansion pack. And it looks like it was a 2.0 patch that reworked a lot of the way the game works. So now they're releasing it and Ultimate Edition, which combines the original game with the expansion, so you can buy both together. But they also released another patch, which they, the 2.0 was supposed to be the end of it, but we've got a little bit more. And it's going to add a full subway system, which is in the trailer, but was never actually in the game. But now you can actually go on the subway and channel around the city. And there's some other features in there, which I have. I was only reading about this earlier this afternoon. So I haven't had a chance to fully research it yet. But I thought it's worth mentioning because you know, this is a game that we've been keeping an eye on and if any of our listeners, if you're thinking about making something with it, it may be useful as well, because you've got some more options to use. I believe, by the time you actually listen to the show, the update will be out is it was announced as the fifth of December, which is a few days away from recording, but by the time he was to sort of be out, so hopefully, there's some interesting stuff there.

Tracy Harwood 05:22
I what I read also, and I don't I don't know to what extent this is actually the case or the, you know, the fans seem to be on the inside track of it. What they're saying that is coming with the new with the new updates and whatnot, is a new third person view feature. And a new game plus feature meaning that folks won't lose the progress when they're starting these kinds of things. So I'm assuming, presumably, what that will allow is people to record new endings to, you know, to stories and whatnot, and also make more interesting machinima because they'll have more more ways in which to kind of capture and create the content. So I, my guess is, there's going to be a lot more game functionality for storytelling as well, which I think is really quite an interesting opportunity for for them, and also probably reflects what we were just talking about with Witcher, Witcher three as well.

Damien Valentine 06:26
Yeah, there's a lot of potential there for modders or storytellers to use this game world, and to tell their own stories, which is something we're gonna be talking about in a minute with this film I've chosen. But yeah, opening up to the audience, to the fans, I think that's a great idea, because it's a huge game to explore, got the city in the middle of the desert around the edge of it, and you got this new section in the expansion as well. And the city is different in different parts of the game. So you've got the, you've got the very rich part with all the latest high tech technology. And then you've got the slums where everything's falling apart. And in places you wouldn't really want to go. And then there's Pacifica region, which is completely lawless. As the first time you go, there, you see an explosion in one of the buildings, and no one cares, but there's big skyscrapers an explosion, no one even thinks anything of it. It's just everyday life. So you know, somewhere you wouldn't want to go see, you know, there's a huge, different place. And of course, you grew up in the desert, desert and explore so even got that you might not want to do anything in the city, do you have a story that you want to tell out in the desert, well, maybe something like Mad Max or something like that. And that is another option for you. Because you've got that environment. And it's huge, you can find different places to film. So yeah, I'm excited for this Cyberpunk update, and looking forward to seeing what people do with it, and looking forward to playing it myself as well. So I'll move on to the film, which is, of course made with Cyberpunk 2077. And we've seen for a long time, people retelling the story of a video game, usually they take the cutscenes of a game, and ended up putting some gameplay elements to fill in the gaps. But it's usually just a straight rehash of the cutscenes. So when I saw this, I thought this is probably going to be same except there are no cutscenes in cyberpunk 2077. Everything is first person perspective. So occasionally, you will lose control of the character while something's happening. But you're still seeing it from your character's perspective. So what this person has done is they've created the movie out of the game story. But they've made it out of their own cutscenes that they've used the Otis video tools, and then they've got to use some other mods to fill in the gaps as well, where obviously you never see your character. Because you're you're seeing to your eyes, you don't see what they're doing. So they have to mod the game to be able to show the character because it's not done from the first person perspective in this film. It's just just that what we're talking about. Now, it's just the trailer because I like that shows enough of it gives you a full sets the taste of what they've done. I haven't actually had time to sit down and watch the 90 minute movie myself. I kind of want to. But yeah, me too. Because I really enjoyed the story. And I think doing it as a movie. It's going to work and be very interesting. And obviously, this game has choices that affect the stories. There's only one path through the game, that they've This is the past they've chosen to tell their story. But everyone who is playing it, it's gonna have very different experiences. So I kind of want to watch this whole thing because really intriguing how they modified the game to do it in a way it's not just stitching all the cutscenes together. Yeah So I think that that's what drew my attention to. So what do you guys think?

Phil Rice 10:05
I'm particularly interested in it, because it's maybe because because it's not a game that I've ever played, or owned. So it would be it's like watching a new movie, you know, and and from a, you know, made in a game made by a company, who knows how to do attention to detail in their story worlds, you know, we've seen it. I mean, of course, in multiple iterations of GTA, and Red Dead Redemption. And here in cyberpunk as well. I'm very, very excited to actually, when when you submitted the trailer for us to look at Damien, I didn't catch. I didn't understand that the movie was already released. So I was just thinking, Oh, I'll look forward to that when it comes out. And it was actually only during the course of talking about it right now. I realise. Wow. I bookmarked it. I mean, watch it tonight. I mean, it's Yeah. Because it is a while it's not a game that, that I have time to invest in what would be many, many hours, right, you know, exploring it and getting to know it and all that. And I just, I just don't have time for that right now. But I could I could watch a 90 minute movie about it for sure. So I'm very looking forward to it. And the I mean, the trailer is, I mean, it's just, it's just beautiful. It's what you'd expect from, from everything that I've seen from that game. It's got that it's got that look. So yeah, I'm pretty excited about it. It's actually all I have to say about it.

Tracy Harwood 11:52
Well, I got a few more things. And you may or may not agree as ever. But I think that I think there's really interesting timing for this. Because of what we were talking about, before we started talking about the film, the fact that CD Projekt Red, the developer is releasing this Ultimate Edition and these updates. I think what what this film release and the trailer are, then they are a perfect departure point for any for anyone really wanting to try the new features that are being released. Because this is clearly a cinematic run through of the kind of narrative arc centering around some of the kind of the main characters in the game. And I guess, therefore, if you don't know, the game, watching this, as a movie is really good way to find out what it's all about. And that means you can access the next level of content without having to faff around and, and, you know, get get your character and progress through the stages as you would normally I have to. And in many ways, I think what that that makes this is the ultimate, you know, adverts for this game. And I mean, ultimate because it's, what 80-90 minutes long in its in its full version. I mean, that's just an astonishing kind of endeavour, in many ways. And I gotta say, apart from the, the, you know, the incredible visuals and mechanics that we've we've commented on kind of time and again, since it was its first really released. And for many folks have really started making films with it. I don't think I ever actually fully appreciated that there is an a sort of a narrative story arc as such, within this game, in the in the way that it's it's kind of being articulated here, or indeed just how complex the game is in the way that these narrative arcs interweave between the characters. And, you know, which I think is well, I mean, it's probably not very surprising. I'm not again, but I guess, you know, I might have expected that to be the case. Because, you know, when when I you know, I can remember when we had that conversation about Minecraft, I think I was a little surprised to realise that actually, that was all about digging holes. And I haven't kind of cottoned on to the fact and that's because what I'm watching is a machinima of it not actually playing it to figure out how to make this sort of content. So I kind of come at this from a slightly different perspective than most folks would the appreciate this as a game as a game world. And my guess is, most folks that will watch this appreciate it as a game rather than as a as a film. So, like you say, Phil, the this movie came out a couple of weeks ago, actually, I did get it in my feed somehow, I don't really know how and but I did start to watch it as the full version of it. I got about 10-15 minutes into it, and I couldn't really had it lost me. For whatever reason, I just never finished it. And I've, I keep thinking, I'll go back to it, because it kind of intrigued me that that this had been made, but I never have, and I'm fairly certain the reason for that was that I needed to give it much more attention than I then the time I've actually had available to do it. But probably also that it's just taking too long to make a point. And very possibly, when I looked at the trailer, I was thinking, actually, the trailer is doing something a little different. It's not, it's not that it's too complex and too detailed. And it's, and it's not kind of getting to the point quickly enough, it's just that there is so much going on, there isn't really enough detail that helps me fully understand what it is I'm going to see in the film, or why I should really watch it all the way through. And I kind of concluded that actually, probably my expectations are just a little bit different. But that's probably just my my view of it really, because it's very clear that this this cinematic, you know, full movie of it is clearly much requested of the of the of the developer, particularly among the game players. I suppose really, it's because they want to see a new story with the way that you know, with with, with the characters that they basically love. And of course, you know, one of those characters is actually Keanu Reeves as well. But they've already invested in it, I think as, as viewers, in some respect, because of the, you know, the detail in it. Overall, I thought it was really beautifully made, it really does convey what the games are all about. I think I struggled a little bit with the darknesses and the different nuances between the characters. And and do they call them shards. In this, I assume what they're referring to what I would perhaps call branching narratives. So that, you know, you can kind of run through the game in, in in multiple different ways, or go off and do little bits and pieces. But I found that just a little kind of, you know, there's there's clearly a lore that I don't really fully understand. And I and as a consequence, I find it a little bit confusing, I suppose. But I have to say, overall, what I think this guy Jack Hunt has achieved is actually really outstanding. And as someone sort of states, what he's got here is that it's not only a love letter to the game for the story in the universe, but everyone who's worked on it, and to the community. And I think it's the community that this is really for. It's not, not it's not necessarily for people that are not within that community. And I think it's quite ironic, really, that the company themselves has said that said there will there will no way consider making a movie out of it. Interesting in that, but it's also very interesting that it's the community is said, Well, if you won't do it, we will and for that I think this guy should be paid by CD Projekt Red for the work that he's done on this because it's the ultimate advert for this.

Ricky Grove 19:14
They're gonna make a lot of money from this guy's movie and trailer and but then again, that's what machinima does. You know, it's people who love games, and they love the community of it, and they don't really care. I mean, if the motive was to make money they would have it would have been a different kind of film. But I agree with you almost everything you said I had the same problem at a certain point, but but I just stuck with it. I don't know why I just stuck with it and got all the way through. Some of the thoughts that occurred to me was the difference between the function of a game trailer and the function of a cutscene. A game trader wants you there. It's informational, and it wants to get you to buy the game. aim, by giving you what the game is capable of the kinds of things you do in the game, the kind of moods, the kind of fighting the kind of characters, the kind of story. And on that level, if you look at a third level this, you're absolutely right, this is extremely well done very stylish and appealing, I would buy this game. A cutscene operates differently because it gives you the drama of a particular moment in a game. For example, in Elden Ring, you'll often go into a boss arena, and there'll be a cutscene before you fight the boss, explaining who the boss is, and their background story. Now, 90% of the time, the first time you play that game, you'll watch that cutscene. But after that, you want to get to the battle. So it's more of a disposable kind of thing than a game trailer is. But that's just some of the thoughts I had about it. My problem with the film is that it as an advertisement. It it kind of left me cold. You know, it's like looking at a gorgeous advertisement of a nouveau French wonderful posters for a stage show a Belle Epoque stage show, and you go God, that design is wonderful. And then event look cool. And then you walk on. You don't I mean, it's advertisements. You're not supposed to be going on kind of feel so much for the girl want to sit you want to dress she's forced to wear that dress? Oh, no. And what about those guys behind her? Are they taking advantage over? You know, you don't think of any of that. You just see it as an advertisement, you move on. And on that level, it succeeds admirably. But for some reason, I want to be unreasonable. And I want it to tell me a little bit something about the characters I want him to be. I want them to give me some sort of feeling about why they're doing what they do. And, and I don't think that's too much to ask really, you know, add a little bit of that extra thing, because sometimes people play games for the story. They don't play games necessarily for the fighting and, and all of that they want to be moved by it again. It's like a novel. You want to get involved in the characters and all of that. But you know, that's just me. And once again, as you pointed out so wonderfully in our last episode, Tracy, we all bring our own perspective to it. And Phil's comment about Wittgenstein saying, Well, you and the object that you're working with are going to, you're going to interact in a very unique way. And that was my take on it. I just left me cold. Although I very much admire the style. And I understand it was an advertisement and as an advertisement. I couldn't find anything wrong with except for maybe a little long. But then again, I like things are shorter. What I liked it, I thought it was a really interesting pick, and I would certainly buy the game to play it.

Phil Rice 23:21
Ricky does does the game itself Cyberpunk 2077? Does it generally give you that same cold feeling? Because what you're describing your reaction to this, this trailer and that that lack of connection, if you will, that that coldness, that's kind of how the game has always struck me, it's probably why I've never bought it and never decided. Because it's not that I don't have time, I've just chosen not to invest time in that game because it just doesn't grip me at all. And whereas Red Dead Redemption 2 did. You know, there was something about the way that that story was presented, that I felt like there was going to be something there I would connect to or at least something about that world that I would connect to. And there's I don't know, there's something about the dystopian landscape that's really it's cold. And I'm just wondering if I mean, I'm interested in watching it as a movie, but not as something that I feel like I'm going to come away with a narrative love interest, if you will, you don't have say, like drama, you're really tasty meal. That's just gonna pass right through my body and not make any real difference on me, but it's gonna taste great. That's kind of how I feel about the game. And as you were talking, I realised that's kind of how I feel about the movie too, but I don't feel any. I don't I don't have any compelling reason to care. What happens to anyone that point on the screen? I don't care. And that's a problem. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's sure as hell should be a problem. Right? Yeah. I mean, so yeah, that's, that's, that's interesting observations. And I've always assumed I have that same feeling but I think it didn't impact me from watching this trailer, because I'd already kind of decided that that was the effect. That's what it was. Yeah, the game world already has on me, which is that's just a sad, hopeless world. And honestly, and I just, what is the possible good outcome that one could expect to happen to someone in that world? From what I know about it? It's not a redeemable world.

Ricky Grove 25:51
Yeah, yeah.

Phil Rice 25:52
It's doomed. You know, and I don't know if it's just that. I'm not real excited about adopting that worldview. You know, because there's a lot of elements of that gain points. Like, yeah, that's what that's what things are becoming here. You know, and so what I see Apple with vision Pro, and you all put on this mask and just just go off into your own world, everybody. Hey, everybody, just go off into your own mask. And I'm just thinking, Oh, my God, do you know what that will fucking look like? What's gonna happen? You know, in

Tracy Harwood 26:34
that world, Phil, you've done it not with their eyes, they've done it with their ears. walk down the street. Nobody. But,

Phil Rice 26:42
you know, man, that's, that's a, that's a hard pill to swallow. You know, to either accept, to even accept that about the world at that fictional world as presented by that game. Makes me fidget in my sight area here. Yeah, the idea that I should say, Yep. It's a done deal. And that's where we're going is this dark world where we just contort our bodies with technology and nothing matters. Nothing really means anything. There are no meaningful. Okay, so the trailer implies that the movie, there are going to be meaningful relationships. So let's give it that. It does appear that, you know, this person is going to have someone they care about, but it's like, but in that world, what's the maximum they're gonna be able to do for them? You know what I'm saying? Everybody? Yeah, everybody's happy.

Ricky Grove 27:42
Yeah. So well, now listen, I want to give you a little bit of hope, though, for that future world. Because in that world, there may be somebody who can, who makes Sims 10 and allows you to torture the characters in such unique ways. Yeah,

Phil Rice 28:01
they've already put in Keanu Reeves in it. It's like, that's right.

Ricky Grove 28:04
You'll be able to do amazing.

Tracy Harwood 28:07
Yeah, the redeeming feature, isn't he? Yeah. The

Phil Rice 28:11
Kiana art gallery.

Damien Valentine 28:15
Go monkey with that statement. I will say that that is actually pretty true to the thief of the game. That seems 10 but actually happen.

Ricky Grove 28:28
Oh my god.

Damien Valentine 28:29
I don't know if it's gonna be in the film version of the game, because obviously, they're stripping it down to focus on the main core of the story. They're not doing any of the side stuff you can get involved with. But it's a very interesting world, but it's not what he wants to live in. is fun to visit. Yes, actually.

Phil Rice 28:49
No, that's a very fair statement. I

Ricky Grove 28:50
think that's a fair statement. Yeah.

Damien Valentine 28:54
Because I did when the game was firstly, so plays it is in its very rocky, buggy state. And now they fixed all of that. And it's massively improved as far as the gameplay is concerned. So I'm looking forward to playing the DLC and going through it again. With all the bugs fixed.

Phil Rice 29:11
Hey, in fairness, Red Dead Redemption 2 isn't probably isn't a world most people would want to live in either. No, but maybe it's it doesn't disturb me in the same way. Because the chances that we will end up living in a world like Red Dead Redemption 2 are pretty slim, unless you're looking unless you're we're looking past the world that fell apart. Yes. 77. Yes. And we might return to that, that. Yeah, that

Damien Valentine 29:38
was great. RDR2 is not a historical game. It's it's a sci fi, far future game.

Tracy Harwood 29:45
Planet of the Apes and whatnot. Yeah, I'd like to

Ricky Grove 29:47
I'd like to point out that there's an occupational hazard with watching all of these films at the same time, which is what I generally do. This film was last one, I watched out of all of the films that we've picked for this month. And I think what happens, you get an artificial reaction to a film based on what you've already seen previously, when you see an absolutely brilliant film, like The Sims 4 film or Oryctes, and suddenly you come to the Cyberpunk, it's less impressive than what it actually is. So I think for my part, I'm going to try to watch these films on different days. Yeah, I already. Oh, well, I should, I must.

Phil Rice 30:39
Kind of like cleansing the palate. Yeah.

Ricky Grove 30:43
Yeah. That way one movie won't bleed into the other.

Tracy Harwood 30:49
is the only way I can do it. I can't I don't have the time to sit and think about them all on one day, really. So I spread it out over over the month, basically,

Ricky Grove 30:59
because I actually think I might have liked this film better if it hadn't been in comparison to some of the others I watched.

Tracy Harwood 31:07
I was not it's not a bad film at all. It's just

Ricky Grove 31:11
I'm not saying it's a bad film. But I may have been more may be more enthusiastic, because I'd be prone to wanting to watch it more carefully. Yeah. You

Phil Rice 31:21
know, by the way, I really like the and respect the tradition of the editing together a feature length film out of a games, either cutscenes or cinematics, Anachronox comes to mind. I don't know if any of you remember. Yeah,

Ricky Grove 31:39
I remember that. Oh, yeah, they're fully done.

Phil Rice 31:43
And somebody, fairly recently, was endeavouring to do something like this for Half Life Alyx, I believe, right. I don't know if they completed it or not.

Tracy Harwood 31:55
But they did indeed. And we interviewed Half Peeps, his name was and he released it in three different episodes. I think we covered it must have been last year at some point. Okay. I'll put some links back on the on the show. And

Phil Rice 32:11
I think I might want to revisit that. Yeah.

Damien Valentine 32:12
Cool. Well, Phil, it'd be interesting after you've watched the movie of the game, if it'll change your perspective on wanting to play the game, or not. Yeah, you'll make your opinion or watch

Phil Rice 32:25
my Steam notifications. If you see, you suddenly see me on on the game, you know that it did its job. So yeah. My son loves the game.

Damien Valentine 32:36
Ah, good. Okay. He likes it. Alright, so I think that wraps things up for this week. If you have any feedback about us or the film, if you want to talk to us about your views on Cyberpunk 2077 Please email talk at completely machinima.com Check out our blog at completely machinima.com as well. And we look forward to seeing you again next week. Let's see you everyone. Bye bye. Bye.

33:03
Bye bye.